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View Full Version : Am I truly a strategy and/or etiquette idiot?


07-22-2005, 04:47 AM
I just had a situation in a 10+1 SNG on PP where there were 4 players left and I was called an idiot for not checking on the bubble to increase the odds of knocking the low stack out. Here is the hand in question:

200/400 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14148970) - Fri Jul 22 04:02:29 EDT 2005
Table Table 35338 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: Im_an_ogre (535)
Seat 6: cablevision (3075)
Seat 8: Hero (2455)
Seat 10: yepikim (1935)
Im_an_ogre posts small blind (100)
cablevision posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kh, Ac ]
Hero raises (400) to 400
yepikim folds.
Im_an_ogre raises (435) to 535
Im_an_ogre is all-In.
cablevision calls (335)
Hero calls (135)
Creating Main Pot with $1605 with Im_an_ogre
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ks, 3d, 9d ]
yepikim: check check it
cablevision checks.
yepikim: check it
yepikim:check
Hero bets (1920)
Hero is all-In.
cablevision folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5h ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Qc ]
Creating Side Pot 1 with $1920 with Hero
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1605 | Side Pot 1: 1920
Board: [ Ks 3d 9d 5h Qc ]
Im_an_ogre balance 0, lost 535 [ 4d 4c ] [ a pair of fours -- Ks,Qc,9d,4d,4c ]
cablevision balance 2540, lost 535 (folded)
Hero balance 3525, bet 2455, collected 3525, net +1070 [ Kh Ac ] [ a pair of kings -- Ac,Kh,Ks,Qc,9d ]
yepikim balance 1935, didn't bet (folded)

Here is the dialogue that followed:
yepikim: idiot
cablevision: I agree
Hero: me?
yepikim: yes
Hero: im trying to win
Hero: not come in the money
Hero: if you wanna be bubble players then fine
cablevision: winning is finishing in the money
Hero: um, no
Hero: its personal preference

Was I wrong for trying to win, instead of just checking to the river so that one of us at least could knock out the 4th place? If I had a marginal hand I would have, but not for the reason they wanted me to, but for the reason of it being a bad hand. I had AK with top pair after the river and I am supposed to play timid. Should I have played it safe to increase the odds of us taking out that player? In my opinion, no I wasn't. I think that was proven by the fact that I ended up winning the SNG for my first win at the $10 level.

Any input into this strategy or etiquette issue would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I am just totally unaware.

Justin A
07-22-2005, 04:52 AM
What you did was fine.

Khern
07-22-2005, 05:00 AM
I've had this discussion a few times, and it's usually agreed that checking it down is generally overvalued. But I'm not an expert, ask around in the STT forum.

More generally, why didn't you open push?

John

Ianco15
07-22-2005, 05:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
yepikim: check check it
cablevision checks.
yepikim: check it
yepikim:check

[/ QUOTE ]
This is colluding.

07-22-2005, 05:04 AM
That's a very good question! Perhaps I actually was playing timid due to the bubble situation; the exact thing I was preaching against. Dang!

666
07-22-2005, 05:08 AM
Excellent (spelling?) play. Those idiots will never win as much as they should be. I hate bubble players BTW.

poker-penguin
07-22-2005, 10:31 AM
You did the right thing for the right reasons (without looking at the hand). If it's a satellite tournament, I'll check around because eliminating that last player has enormous value. Late in a multi, I might also do it, because the payout steps up rapidly.

In a SNG? First place is the only one that matters. Two firsts and two fourths = 100 four thirds = 80.

Uppercut
07-22-2005, 10:53 AM
It's only idiotic if you BLUFF into a dry side pot, thus forcing a better hand out, only to win nothing when the all-in player takes the main pot. (I have actually seen this play several times). You had a made hand that was vulnerable, so your bet is perfectly OK.

autobet
07-22-2005, 12:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What you did was fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

and your opponents were cheating/colluding (the chat)

Fabian
07-22-2005, 12:39 PM
As others have said, nothing wrong.

However I wouldn't try to defend myself in the chat like you did, no reason to educate your ignorant opponents.

wayabvpar
07-22-2005, 01:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
It's only idiotic if you BLUFF into a dry side pot, thus forcing a better hand out, only to win nothing when the all-in player takes the main pot. (I have actually seen this play several times). You had a made hand that was vulnerable, so your bet is perfectly OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. If you missed the flop, AK might still be ahead, but it would then be a mistake to bet into the dry side pot. Once you have a made hand, eliminating competition for the pot is fine.

Matador225
07-22-2005, 03:03 PM
I'll just echo the opinion that everyone else has expressed: You did nothing wrong whatsoever.

4_2_it
07-22-2005, 03:17 PM
As Yoda would say, "Played well did my young padawan."

SL__72
07-22-2005, 03:24 PM
I LOVE bubble players!

And as for that hand, if you did anything wrong it was betting too much on the flop and scaring away that other guy who could have donated a few more chips to your cause.

/edit not that pushing was a poor choice either