no limit hand

[Boris]

5-5 blinds. I have 10-10 and open for $40. two players call behind me and the sb calls.

Flop is 7-5-2 with two hearts. I bet $120. Two players fold and the sb moves in for ~$700. I have $1700.

I think this is an easy call but what do you think?

[Zeno]

Given the limited information you gave on the player that moved in, unless you have an excellent read on his hand; I see no reason to fold your overpair.

He may be trying to push you off the hand with nut flush draw (A,x)cards. Or? would he call with small suited connectors getting good odds to see the flop, caught a chunk of the cards and decided to gambled he could bluff you out, figuring that you have AK. A small set is also a possiblity with the SB. Still, I think you have call.

-Zeno

[kirisim]

Even if he has Ax the tens are barely a favorite because he can spike an ace as well.

[MHoydilla]

Ok heres how I see it. You bet $120 into the pot of $120 he calls your bet and raises $580 so you have to call $580 for a (360 + 580) 940 pot so if you win your getting 940/580 odds on you call. Lets think about the possible hands your opp. could have: an Axs with flush draw he would have appr.12 outs or 15 if the x is above 10 you are a slight favorite to a 3/2 dog, if he has a straight draw with no flush you are a approx a 2-1 fav, if he has an overpair or a set you are drawing almost dead well approx 1/10 chance of winning, if he has a pair and a flush draw like A2s you are approx a 3/2 dog, if he has a straight flush draw you are aprrox a 3/2 dog. After all of this I would actually fold if I didnt know the opponent to be on the wild side. If he is wild I would call but grit my teeth as I did so. I look foward to seeing Ray Zee's,or Fosilman's opinion on this hand as well.

[Daniel Zarchan]

I think you have a fold here against most players. I did some back of the envelope calculations and found that he needs to be on a draw here something on the order of 6/7 of the time in order to make a call correct. While that fraction might seem unreasonably high to you, it's being driven by the fact that you're only like a 2:1 favorite against most draws (or worse), and you're a big dog when behind a better made hand. Against some players I'm sure this is a good call, but not against a generic one I don't think. Just my opinion, and I haven't really played or thought about poker in a long time, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it.

- Dan

[Zoe's Echo]

Boris,

My thought here is that I don't know of too many players that would move in here without 1) a set, 2) nut flush draw, 3) opened straight or straight flush draw. Set doesn't seem as likely unless the player figures you for the nut flush draw and doesn't want the risk of redraw. I personally might be a little more patient with a set on the flop hoping to really jack it on the turn when the draw doesn't appear to materialize and the overpair comes back after the pot.

I think that there are better times to get in all-in than this. The hands you dominate are 99,88,66 and 87 I would really need to have observed this player in action before calling here. If your pair were KK and the board had a Q then I am more willing to think that my opponent was trying to blow me off my hand. It's one of those - you may have the best hand but how likely are you to keep it questions.

Of interest would be how much he/she had left after the raise to $700?

Hope you got it!

[Matt Flynn]

Boris,

I played an identical hand except with position at the WSOP $5-5 game. Alex said go all-in, absolutely. Tommy said Alex had a bigger bankroll and that affects the decision. There was no concensus on 2+2, just playing the player. Carl McKelvey (sp?) weighed in on another TT hand with raising preflop with TT whenever the stack sizes were big enough that he could stand a reraise preflop and still play on. His move demands aggressive and reading-based play on the flop.

At this point in my education I favor typically limping with TT to spike the set, and sometimes raising with it to isolate with position or to get the pot size big enough to get all-in if the set hits. Had I gotten where you were, I would've called more often than not, with the decision made in large part on the opponent's tendencies to overbet the pot. That said, I don't like putting my stack in on 50-50 propositions, which two overcards with a flush draw has on you, so I try to manipulate the pot preflop to avoid the problem. Someone with better reading skills might play it a lot differently.

Hope your winning streak got extended.

Matt

[Ray Zee]

if he will move in with many draws then gladly play. you are getting around 3 to 2 for your call.
if you think he wouldnt fold.
its a player dependent decision. no good answer can be given.

[RollaJ]

The way I see it there is also a good possibility he smooth called you from the small blind pre-flop with AA-KK as he acted after you, by you betting the pot you are basically saying you have an over pair, not AK (unless suited in hearts) so at this point if he does have one of those afformentioned hands he can move in easily, no wanting to let u catch. JMHO

[hot tub man # 1]

I agree this is very player dependant, but I think I would be leaning towards a fold here. Since both players called a raise, a straight draw looks fairly unlikey, although I would probably call with 86 suited if you had a big stack. If you arnt behind it probably a flush draw with two overcards, putting you about even money. If you are behind, he probably smooth called with a big pair, or he made a set. Unless it was a very aggresive player, I would fold.

[happyjaypee]

Did you have the T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif ??

[Boris]

Not sure if I made it clear in the original post but the bad guy raised me all in on the flop betting.

Anyways, he had the nut draw, AhQh, and made it on the river. boohoo.

The reason I thought it was an easy call with 10-10 is that I just don't think a reasonable no limit player would wait to see the flop with a big pair before committing his chips in this situation. JJ is a small possibility but it doesn't seem logical to me why he would fear a higher pair before the flop but then decide I had AK or something like that after the flop. I thought if he flopped a set he would definitely try to milk me a bit since there are only two hands he has to worry about me having, AhKh and AhQh. If I have a big pair, he has me by the balls so why not let me keep firing into the pot? I know this was one of those situations where I was either a little bit ahead or way behind. But my thought process lead me to believe that I was almost for certain a little bit ahead and there was a very small probability that I was way behind. Of course maybe I wouldn't saying this if guy had flopped a set. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Guy McSucker]

I know this was one of those situations where I was either a little bit ahead or way behind.

The pedant in me can't resist mentioning that against his actual holding you are a little bit behind... (about 5-4 against)

Guy.

[Ginger]

Ray
I have the upmost respect for you and your play, we used to play together in and around Reno. Your response to the above surprises me. There are not many hands 2 T's will beat for that -kind of money-, why simply not pick a better spot?

Also, at this point, the amount the 2 t's have invested can be gotten away from easily. For me, it's a lose a lot situation. I see very little upside to these kinds of calls...and a long term huge money downside.

No disrepect Ray, maybe I mis-interpreted your comments. I have always felt you ARE one of the best at all games and anyone that doesn't have your written material is making a big mistake. I muck those tens in a heartbeat and wait for a real hand.

No offense please /forums/images/icons/smile.gif 'Ole Ginger /forums/images/icons/wink.gif