flopping the joint

[kirisim]

I was playing 5/5 PLHE against good players. I felt like I had no advantage in the game so I was hoping to get lucky. So on the hand, I'm in middle position with AKo. I raise it to $25 and get one caller behind me. The limper calls. So there's $80 in the pot and three players. The flop is AKK. Check, I check, check. Turn is a low card. Check, I bet $25, they both fold.

So I have flopped an absolute lock hand and pretty much can't be outdrawn. These guys aren't dumb enough to call a bet. So should I just check the turn, and hope someone makes something on the river? Or, has the deck been crippled and I just won't get any action on this hand?

[nicky g]

You should check and fold. Someone clearly has AA.

Seriously, sometimes you flop a great hand and noone has anything and there's little you can do. For example, if one limped with 89s and the other with 55, fairly typical limp/see-a-flop hands in nl, nothing is going to happen that'll give you any action short of a 5 flopping, for example. I would probably bet the flop as checking along, then betting the turn when they check again, looks so fishy. You also might want to limp occasionally with big hands for deceptive purposes.
If you feel like you have no advantage, don't play.

[kirisim]

Yeah but in my mind I've convinced myself I'm better than these people.

[Matt Flynn]

You didn't give the stack sizes. If they're big, bet the flop. Give KQ a chance to go all-in. Be sure to watch the player. If he's tight you should be able to figure if he's got a full house and be able to get away from your hand.

Matt

[kirisim]

Did you even read my post Matt?

[Matt Flynn]

Yes I did read it. I don't agree with the premise of your question. What is your goal? Do you want to get a half pot bet out of someone? Make maybe $50? Or do you want to take the 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 that an opponent with a lesser but danceable hand or a little too much spunk pay you off for big money? Sure, the majority of the time they fold, but the EV's higher with leading out. Consider he might even call you to steal on the turn - that right there gives you the $50 you're working towards.

[Matt Flynn]

kirisim,

Ack, you caught me after a meeting. Disregard the tone of the above.

Ok, you've flopped the near-mortal nuts and it's hard to put the other guy on a hand that'll play with you. You're feeling getting all the money in is hopeless and want to squeeze a little.

How does your opponent play? Is he suspicious or tenacious? How about leading the flop for an underbet? Say $50. Tempt him. Then check the turn. It's like a neon sign saying "Steal Me." If he's subsavvy he'll bet big, maybe even the pot. If he's smart he'll poke back, maybe $100 or less. Then you stall, no matter what your move. You can raise him $100 or call and check into him if you think he's flat out bluffing and may try to blow you off the pot on the river with a juicy bet.

Suppose he's a rock. Fuggedaboudit.

Suppose he's willing to play but you think he has an actual hand (not a big hand or you'd go all in). If he's any good he won't give you the opportunity to build a pot and will check the turn. So go for the small milkrun. $50. $80. $120. Heck, that might even tempt him to steal if he thinks you're firing blocking bets.

But, say you check the flop. Now what? A turn bet might get called anyway. There I'd bet the pot because it looks fishier. If you check the turn and he checks behind, he's done. Bet the river big and hope he plays sheriff.

But, but , but..... he's got all those beautiful chips and he just might play for the whole enchilada with a little encouragement.... ;-)

Matt

[limon]

whre's the game i've probably played in it (if its public). listen if you dont know the weaknesses of your opponents youre stupid for playing and...you obviously dont if you cant play this hand.

if im against stupid players, like your average armenian at hollywood park, i just check along to the river hopng the fool picks something up. i know hell pay off with alot of stupid [censored].

if im against a pro i make a quick big bet and hope he misreads me and tries to set me up.

against an average player i underbet the pot and look scared. thats it.

[**MR.MANHATTAN**]

best bet imo is to bet the flop////////

[Pot-A]

I would make a $50 bet on the flop. Since you raised pre-flop, the flop bet is gonna be pretty much automatic. For two reasons: 1) If you check when you hit and bet when you don't you're giving away your hand. So bet when you hit and bet when you don't, always the same amount relative to the pot size. 2) A check here will make everyone suspicious, since they'll expect you to try to steal with such a scary flop. They'll gladly check until you start betting and then fold if they haven't developed anything. If you bet the flop you might sucker AQ or KQ into a big bluff.