Do I bet this turn?

[mattrado]

Bet this turn? Bet the river? I have no good read on either player, except that UTG +1 is a little loose.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8.16 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has Qd Ac (full house, queens full of aces).
Hero has Ad Jd (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 12.16 BB. </font>


Many thanks in advance!

-Matt


edit: my image was pretty tight at this table

[keetz555]

You shouldn't have included the results.

I see no point in betting the turn. All you have is on overcard and a decent kicker. When your ace hits on the river, bet. Call the check-raise. If UTG is a loose player, he could think his AT or whatever is good. I don't see a lot of players trying to bluff two people, so he obviously caught something on the river. I like his play here.

[Dariel86]

I wouldn't bet that turn against two opponents. If one of them have a queen your drawing dead 100% of the time. Your out of position too so you can't take a free showdown.

[mattrado]

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't have included the results.

I see no point in betting the turn. All you have is on overcard and a decent kicker. When your ace hits on the river, bet. Call the check-raise. If UTG is a loose player, he could think his AT or whatever is good. I don't see a lot of players trying to bluff two people, so he obviously caught something on the river. I like his play here.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for the response (and I won't include the results in the future /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). The bet against 2 opponents is probably overvaluing my hand. I suppose a decent pocket pair probably calls me down, but I thought betting all the way might be worth something bluff-wise.
thanks again,

Matt

[callmedonnie]

Bet/fold turn, and check the river if its checked to you. The turn puts the scare card there. Check/raise could come, but you can end it right then and there.

[krimson]

I like betting this turn. I think if either villians had a Q they would lead the flop. It's only 3-way so they don't want to give a free card to something like AK, AJ, KJ, etc. You define your hand as having a Q and the turn improves you heavily (from a bluffing point of view) to something your opponents are probably drawing dead too. You get 1:5 and I think this is a good bluff. I would certainly fold to a raise.

I would bet this river as well. I can't see a Q waiting till the river to c/r you, so your hand looks to have become a winner here, and can probably get a call from weaker aces or underpairs not wanting to fold for that one last bet.

edit: is something missing from the hand? It says 4 handed but I only see action from 3 people. If there are 4 people in this hand, and we're out of position, then scrap everything I said.

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
I see no point in betting the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of folks who take one card off on a flop like this, and fold the turn. Your two opponents could have as many as 12 outs combined against you. It's worth betting to try and fold out those six-out hands.

You might even get someone to fold middle or bottom pair.

If the board didn't pair and the turn had been a blank, that's a different story. It's now more likely that you've been called by a queen on the flop. I think a check behind is fine then.

-McGee

[Aces McGee]

Is anyone tempted to three-bet the river?

-McGee

[sy_or_bust]

Betting this turn works great against the blinds or weak limpers, but isn't as strong against mediocre+ EP players. Often these specific players have small-medium pairs they won't fold, and may raise. I'm not sure your folding equity is very good either.

Still, against weak/loose players it's a value bet (planning to cehck behind river UI) so it's a tough spot to pin down without a read. My default play is to check the turn, and consider calling a single bet on a river brick.

[sy_or_bust]

[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone tempted to three-bet the river?

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I'd be more inclined to do this against UTG+1. It is conceivable that UTG was looking for overcalls with a queen+ on both earlier streets - I think this is actually the best way to play a queen here, and especially a strong one like AQ/KQ.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone tempted to three-bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because the person c/r'ing us is obviously not afraid of the trip queens that we are representing.

[Aces McGee]

Upon further reflection, I probably shouldn't have brought this up. I've been playing in some stupidly aggressive games here, but it's rare that you'll run into an opponenent that will recklessly checkraise this river.

Ignore, and carry on.

-McGee

tough situation.. I sometimes bet here depending on reads mostly... I would check behind on the river though.