Last one....induce a bluff?

[PokerBob]

I open in the Hijack with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Button ( I have no read) 3-bets, blinds scram, I call.

Flop (HU): A /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check, he bets, I call.

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

check, he checks

River: 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I....

[worm33]

genearly in that game there isnt much bluff inducing. And this definitly definitly is not the spot. The chances of him having 10's-k's and calling a river bet is about 95% more likely then him having kq or kj high and bluffing. In fact if he bets id say its 90% he thinks hes value betting and u have to checkraise.

[Entity]

If I'm checking it's with the intention of checkraising.

[Fillamoore]

i like betting here. Its almost as if he's trying to get you to bluff. It feels like he has a mid to high pair, bets the flop and decides he'll take a showdown for just 1 more big bet instead of opening himself up to the possibility of being checkraised. I bet here because i see him checking behind with JJ too often.

[SpaceAce]

This looks like a pretty lousy place to induce a bluff to me. He's already shown that he's probably not in love with his hand by checking the turn. Also, he hasn't been given a particularly great opportunity to bluff; that five is not very scary all things considered.

I'd just bet because I think he pays you off with worse hands way more often then he bluffs.

SpaceAce

[rigoletto]

Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I open in the Hijack with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Button ( I have no read) 3-bets, blinds scram, I call.

Flop (HU): A /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check, he bets, I call.

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

check, he checks

River: 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I....

[/ QUOTE ]

....bet. he folded.

[LarsVegas]

I prefer betting this river, with checkraising a second. If it's one of those other overthinking cool guys, he might now valuebet KK-TT.

lars

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I open in the Hijack with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Button ( I have no read) 3-bets, blinds scram, I call.

Flop (HU): A /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check, he bets, I call.

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

check, he checks

River: 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I....

[/ QUOTE ]

....bet. he folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess KQ was no good.

[Robb]

I guess I'm an overthinking cool guy because I would value bet KK-1010 if I was the button. Why? -- because I may get paid off by any pair after the turn is checked through.

Heck even OP was planning on check-calling not check-raising, increasing the value of a river bet by the Button. Given OP checked, a river check-raise is a good play but it's good because it's not common. Therefore Button should value bet KK-1010, imo.

[Clarkmeister]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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[PokerBob]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

[Clarkmeister]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

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If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

[PokerBob]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

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If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation is slighy different IMO, as I opened and he 3-bet.

[Entity]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

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If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

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This situation is slighy different IMO, as I opened and he 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]d

He 3-bet a CO raise from the Button. It's not like he 3-bet a UTG raise from UTG+1.

Rob

[DeeJ]

weak! You gotta bet your Ace or checkraise it on the flop. This is a good flop for Acey Deucey. If he has another ace you lose. If not you win.

You win more than you lose here, so I'm betting all the way. I might consider folding to a raise if I know he's untricky though.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
weak! You gotta bet your Ace or checkraise it on the flop. This is a good flop for Acey Deucey. If he has another ace you lose. If not you win.

You win more than you lose here, so I'm betting all the way. I might consider folding to a raise if I know he's untricky though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I intended to check/call check/call bet.......bad?

[bernie]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

Watch for those guys who yap about Ace magnets and such. They're great to use an Ace on the flop against. They fear it so damn much. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wouldn't this be player dependent? Some players you'd hate that they just called your c/r on the flop. But then, some players will marry their big pairs and pay you off the whole way.

If the guy is aggressive, yet can fold, I don't mind check calling letting him bet. Until he checks the turn. Then you have to bet the river.

You can also check call the flop, then bet out on the turn. I've got some interesting looks when I've done that line. Though it sucks to be raised in that spot. Which is one reason not to do it.

b

[bernie]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation is slighy different IMO, as I opened and he 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]d

He 3-bet a CO raise from the Button. It's not like he 3-bet a UTG raise from UTG+1.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

To some, this is the same raising standard. 3 betting is 3 betting. Not everyone is restealing.

b

[ike]

I think this hand is from the Party 30. In that game almost everyone 3bets an openraise from the hijack pretty light. The ones who don't are notable exceptions and you'll know from their 30/5 vpip/pfr stats.

[PokerBob]

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I think this hand is from the Party 30. In that game almost everyone 3bets an openraise from the hijack pretty light. The ones who don't are notable exceptions and you'll know from their 30/5 vpip/pfr stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canterbury 30

[Entity]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation is slighy different IMO, as I opened and he 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]d

He 3-bet a CO raise from the Button. It's not like he 3-bet a UTG raise from UTG+1.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

To some, this is the same raising standard. 3 betting is 3 betting. Not everyone is restealing.

b

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I agree, but more are lowering their 3-betting standards than are not.

Rob

[bernie]

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Where you not looking to flop an A? c/r the flop and bet it all the way!

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Doesn't a c/r fold out a pair and get me in trouble vs. an A?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's that easy, then wouldn't you checkraise any ace-high flop vs. a preflop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation is slighy different IMO, as I opened and he 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]d

He 3-bet a CO raise from the Button. It's not like he 3-bet a UTG raise from UTG+1.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

To some, this is the same raising standard. 3 betting is 3 betting. Not everyone is restealing.

b

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I agree, but more are lowering their 3-betting standards than are not.

Rob

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Well, then it's a matter of how tight they are postflop. Especially with an A on board. If they are likely to fold to a c/r when you want them still in.

b

[ike]

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I intended to check/call check/call bet.......bad?

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I don't like that line. Seems like he might check behind on the turn here and save a bet. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Xhiggy]

I think c/c, c/c, bet is a fine line against the right type of player. I'm a fan of the passive line here if villain is decent-aggressive, as you'll get a lot of "continuation turn bets", putting you on a flush draw or a hand like K9, 109s, middle pair, etc., or just mainly firing again given that you didn't check-raise the flop.

if you check-raise the flop, then I think you need to be check-raising with a large variety of hands in this spot, otherwise it's just making it way too easy for your opponents to play correctly.

[Peter_rus]

I like c/r-ing more then betting and don't consider calling line like the best (but occasionally use any of them), which many people like more than raising.

Not only you make them pay more for free cards, it's more important that you loose 2.5BB's when you ahead and if you're behind you will win 1.5 or often 0.5bb's if passive line - it's rare he will call your river bet when behind especially after you called turn bet at this level. Also if you c/r - some weekest hands like to autocall "just to see if you're serious" or for meta-game purposes (lol) and you get 1BB instead which is better then inducing turn bluff bet if you think that he will check behind decent amount of time his weak hands.

It's pretty common when KK-TT make it 3-bet or just sweat calling to river (cmon in close to blinds action it's more likely these hands won't believe you especially if you c/r or bet flop, not the turn). In this case you will win 2.5 or 3BB's when you're ahead and loose 3.5bb's when you're behind. You also usually can fold to turn reraise after flop call as it very often represents good ace and this leads you to loose 2BB's.

Regardless of your line you will loose more when you behind and win less when you're ahead in average. But c/rsing or betting the flop confusing people to make usually more mistakes than if you just called i believe in close to blinds action.

If you put him on 55/A8o/A5s/KQo/KJs - you're ahead 53:47 on flop. If you put him on 77/AJo/ATs/KQs - you're ahead 55:45.

[Mikey]

Bet into him.

[Kovner]

I agree, cr the flop. But as it was played...

[ QUOTE ]
genearly in that game there isnt much bluff inducing. And this definitly definitly is not the spot. The chances of him having 10's-k's and calling a river bet is about 95% more likely then him having kq or kj high and bluffing. In fact if he bets id say its 90% he thinks hes value betting and u have to checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So check/calling to induce a bluff is probably wrong, but is checkraising better than betting?

What hands pay off a betout and don't bet if checked to? I think 77 may be the only one.