JJ early - pay off this river bet ?

[Isura]

I decided not the raise the flop since many turn cards would make me unhappy, and I didn't want to invest too much in the flop yet. So, I bet the turn hard since my equity is probably much higher than on the flop, and to protect my hand. I didn't see a point in making a small blocking bet on the river, since I'm getting thumped anyways from a better hand. Smallish bet looked like a straight value bet to me. Call this down for 1/3 of my remaining stack?

***** Hand History for Game 2392819447 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14091278 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Tuesday, July 19, 23:25:23 EDT 2005
Table Table 15028 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: Hero ( $800 )
Seat 5: m1ke5 ( $800 )
Seat 8: Green_Loogie ( $770 )
Seat 4: leroymag360 ( $800 )
Seat 10: PBMack ( $770 )
Seat 2: k1sae ( $920 )
Seat 7: AppleBluntz ( $790 )
Seat 6: davesorrell ( $800 )
Seat 9: flyinstr8 ( $750 )
Seat 1: Headsupmyass ( $800 )
Trny:14091278 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Js Jd ]
k1sae folds.
Hero calls [15].
leroymag360 folds.
m1ke5 folds.
davesorrell folds.
AppleBluntz folds.
Green_Loogie folds.
flyinstr8 calls [15].
PBMack calls [5].
>You have options at Table 13946 Table!.
Headsupmyass checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 5h, Ts ]
PBMack bets [55].
Headsupmyass folds.
Hero calls [55].
>You have options at Table 14262 Table!.
flyinstr8 calls [55].
>You have options at Table 13946 Table!.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6c ]
PBMack checks.
Hero bets [150].
flyinstr8 calls [150].
PBMack folds.
>You have options at Table 13946 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
Hero checks.
flyinstr8 bets [200].
Hero folds.
flyinstr8 does not show cards.
flyinstr8 wins 725 chips

[durron597]

How can you POSSIBLY put him on an 8 often enough to fold when you're getting over 3.5:1 on your call????

This is such an easy call it's disturbing. Call and beat his ten.

[nate_king1]

I'm no expert but I would probably call.

You played the hand pretty weakly, so he probably put you on an 8. The small river bet was a feeler, which unexpectedly won the pot for him. Had you raised him he probably would've folded. He could've had a pair of tens the way he played it, and given the odds he offered you on the river and without any knowledge of the guy's style, you might as well call. If he turns over a straight or two pair, then you know whether he is a sophisticated trapper and was trying to value bet or if he just had Ts, which during the rest of the tournament might be very valuable. You don't want the guy to keep stealing pots from you, and early in with those odds, you should make a stand.

I also just thought of something else. You didn't represent an overpair, so he may have even had tens with a weak kicker and been scared of AT-JT. Of course T8 or T7 would've sucked for you. Also your bet on the turn could've represented a made set. That may have scared him.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
This is such an easy call it's disturbing. Call and beat his ten.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jeffraider]

I'd raise the flop for sure to start with, but I'd also pay off the river in a shot because I think I've got the best hand at least half the time.

[adanthar]

Let's see...I'd have raised PF, raised the flop, bet more on the turn and called the river. Yep, I hate every street.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's see...I'd have raised PF, raised the flop, bet more on the turn and called the river. Yep, I hate every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed on all streets. Why do so many players insist on treating pocket jacks like pocket two's?

[morgan180]

I think you have to raise PF, and I would raise the flop too.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's see...I'd have raised PF, raised the flop, bet more on the turn and called the river. Yep, I hate every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed on all streets. Why do so many players insist on treating pocket jacks like pocket two's?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree I think preflop is a raise. I just got in a comfort zone at the 11s where it didn't much matter if I limped in. I guess I should try incorporate some of my lag MTT style to the 22s.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's see...I'd have raised PF, raised the flop, bet more on the turn and called the river. Yep, I hate every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 horrendous hands from me today. I love poker.

[bigt439]

I really don't hate the pf limp as much as some posters. Jacks are hard as hell to play out of position, and you aren't going to know where you are in so many situations. I raise in MP or LP, but I've started limping in the first 3 spots with jj. I think it's a judgement call. Your argument for not raising the flop is exactly why you have to raise it. So many cards make you unhappy and you don't want the button drawing to one of them cheaply. Your turn bet is fine, if not small, and the way you played this I payoff on the river. I don't know why some people are assuming you're scared of the eight. I'm scared of ghetto two pair more.