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View Full Version : Taking a stand, metagame, or just spewing?

SmileyEH
07-20-2005, 11:49 AM
Villian in this hand is absolutely nuts. Up about 50BB in 75 hands, he's about 90/40 2/3/2. He can fold postflop but basically tries to win every pot. He's won a few against me without showdown but he does have the cabaility to fold. If he has a draw he will go as many bets as possible on the flop. So anyway....I said enough was enough this hand.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>

-SmileyEH
ihardlyknowher
07-20-2005, 11:51 AM
Why not take a stand when you have some cards?
SmileyEH
07-20-2005, 11:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why not take a stand when you have some cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

That wouldn't be taking a stand.

-SmileyEH
RunDownHouse
07-20-2005, 11:53 AM
Its definitely taking a stand. I'm not sure if its spewing or not without knowing a little more about his postflop play (will he donk any 2, for instance).

As for metagame, I think such considerations are pretty wasted on this guy. He's not noticing, and if he does, he doesn't care.
lilkunta2
07-20-2005, 11:54 AM
bad mve your just wasting chips hes calling with any pair, your raise preflop isn't bad but you have to fold on the flop when he bets out
iluzion
07-20-2005, 11:57 AM
I think I raise preflop, and get out of it if he doesn't fold there. Atleast from my 3/6 play I've noticed alot of those "try to win everypot, but will fold" type players lead any flop they think you tried to steal, and I've had alot of them fold to a raise.
SmileyEH
07-20-2005, 11:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think I raise preflop, and get out of it if he doesn't fold there. Atleast from my 3/6 play I've noticed alot of those "try to win everypot, but will fold" type players lead any flop they think you tried to steal, and I've had alot of them fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that if this guy has a flush draw he'll 3bet without even thinking.

-SmileyEH
RunDownHouse
07-20-2005, 12:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that if this guy has a flush draw he'll 3bet without even thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm willing to fold my J-high UI on the turn v. a flush draw.
PokerBob
07-20-2005, 12:07 PM
I have no problem taking a stand against a nucase. But have a hand when you do it.
SmileyEH
07-20-2005, 12:11 PM
I guess I was a little frustrated with this player. I decided when I stole with J8s that I'm going to be called 100% so the raise is a little for value, but I would have to make a play at a few pots especially against this guy in question. In any case he folded quickly to my river bet.

-SmileyEH
PokerBob
07-20-2005, 12:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not take a stand when you have some cards?

[/ QUOTE ]

That wouldn't be taking a stand.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it would. You have J-high here for crying out loud. At least do it with a hand that has some SD value.
SmileyEH
07-20-2005, 12:13 PM
I'd define as taking a stand being when you try to win a pot you would otherwise give up. If I just play my cards against this guy and dont make significant adjustments I'm going to lose to him. Obviously calling down more with mediocre hands and other options are available. At the time against this villian this seemed ok too, but in hindsight it's probably too expensive.

-SmileyEH
PokerBob
07-20-2005, 12:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd define as taking a stand being when you try to win a pot you would otherwise give up. If I just play my cards against this guy and dont make significant adjustments I'm going to lose to him. Obviously calling down more with mediocre hands and other options are available. At the time against this villian this seemed ok too, but in hindsight it's probably too expensive.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are gonna get goofy with a hand like this, it may actually be +EV to get it shown down, as it will be hard for your opponents to forget that you showed J-high.
spydog
07-20-2005, 12:18 PM
You need patience against a maniac. You exercised no patience in this hand. Bad play.
naphand
07-20-2005, 02:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]

You need patience against a maniac. You exercised no patience in this hand. Bad play.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. This was all about ego. No need to "take a stand" let him fall over of his own accord... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
luckyharr
07-20-2005, 03:32 PM
I've gotten into trouble in the past trying to out-LAG the LAGs at a table. I think that's what you're doing here. You extract value from LAGs by three-betting pre-flop with a wider range of hands and raising postflop with weaker hands than normal. If you start raising with nothing, you are starting to play their game. That's my current theory at least.