Hunting Sucks

I saw a glimpse of some hunting show on TV and it almost made me sick. Hunters are so cruel and sadistic. How can people call it a sport to out-think an animal?!?!?!? I find it so pathetic that hunters go and buy all kinds of sophisticated equipment just to kill an uninteligent animal-sometimes for "trophy", and often times just for kicks! In the old days it was a means for survival and that is understandable but this modern day kill spree on animals is just wicked. Man, we live in a screwy world.

Goat,


Hunting exists for one reason: to make animals dead. I agree. Check out the fate of the passenger pigeon if you'd like to see the effect hunters have had on one species.


John

The unspeakeable in pursuit of inedible.


Oscar Wilde.

to the dinner plate. Even less appealing.

I still think that if someone is going to eat their kill, then hunting is Ok. But to kill for the sport of it is silly. To the point where it's hard to feel sorry for a person like the one Zee posted about who was killed by a bear after he shot and killed an elk. I almost want to say it serves him right.

Let me preface this by saying that I have never hunted in my life.


It is very arrogant and unfair to pass judgement on something you know nothing about after seeing 5 minutes of it on TNN. Personally, I think that some hunting requires much skill, and some is just silly. However, as long it is done responsibly, I don't see how I can fault anyone for doing it. If it makes people happy and doesn't hurt anyone (people), then let them hunt. Everybody needs a hobby. If you don't want to hunt, don't hunt, and if you think something they are doing is wrong, then talk to your local government officials, but don't just go around calling people you know nothing about sadistic. Also remember that hunters (today) are more concerned about conservation than most people. It is in their best interest to keep open spaces undeveloped and keep populations of animals strong, or they will no longer have a sport. Don't start arguing a point unless you can back it up with valid logic. Inflamatory words and name-calling may be the tools of the modern media, but they accomplish nothing except propogating themselves.


I do have to admit, however, that I laughed my ass off when I saw some guy on TV whose nerves were causing him to shake violently as he scoped a mountain goat. He shot it and there was a ridiculous shot of its carcass bouncing down the cliff it had been on. To each his own I guess.


-G-

I agree that the hunting shows on TV are bullshit. There are quite a few game farms in Texas and New Mexico where, for a hefty fee, they basically drive the client to the animal and shoot it. this is highly unethical in my view.


The great majority of hunters aren't the rich and famous you see on the TV shows. Most are like myself (when I lived in Montana). Every year I'd stomp around the woods for a few days and shoot a deer and, if I was lucky, I'd also get an elk. The meat is the best and healthiest you will ever eat. The state manages the hunting regs to assure that overhunting does not occur. It's kind of ironic that game species are looked out for better than the non-game species.


I never felt too bad when I made a kill. The worst part is right when you walk up to the carcass and see the eyes glazed over. I always felt sorry for the deer right then. I'd get over it after about a minute. Death is part of the cycle of life. Animals are not humans. I put the meat to good use.


A far greater injustice in my mind is the proliferation of Zoos and circuses. Now that's animal cruelty.

first let me say that I am not a deer hunter--so this is not in defense--just something which you should know.


this islikely true in other parts of the country, but my specific knowledge is of a part of Texas known as the hill country


there are many, many deer there. so many so that there is not enough food provided by mother nature to feed all thru the winter. if there happens to be a bigger than average of deer born in a year that means that there will bigger that average number of deer which will starve to death during the winter


under these conditions, those in the business of knowing such things, say that the "harvesting" of deer in the deer season is a

good thing for all concerned


I have been a bird hunter..dove and quail..and know that a very small number of those which I shot would have lived thru the year

I have no problem hunting wild deer. do it myself.


I just don't like paying someone to hold your hand while you try to bag a critter. Also, the game farms "grow" all sorts of animals so you have a choice of what you want to kill.

Boris,

I'm not a hunter myself, but I do fish a lot and enjoy the outdoors, and I do agree with your points.

I do slightly disagree with your assertations about Zoos, though. I think that some do very good work preserving endangered species and making urbanites aware of ecological issues. Often the funding for behing the scenes efforts would not be possible if it weren't for the public displays that draw the crowds.


Circus', on the other hand, are a waste.

While I don't like the idea of hunting purely for sport and in fact find it rather revolting, there are two related points I think are quite relevant and important.


1) Paying a farmer and butcher to grow and kill your meat is NO BETTER morally speaking than killing a wild animal and eating it. In fact it may be worse because animals grown as food are often subject to a lower quality of life (IMO) than wild animals.


2) I read in the newspaper, about a year ago, that there are 30 MILLION DEER in the United States (lower 48 I think), which is FAR MORE than there were at the time the Pilgrims landed. This is a serious overpopulation problem and brings with it disease such as Lyme disease and problems such as road accidents. Basically, the deer have no natural predators left and thrive in areas such as where I live which is just standard small townish America. If they aren't hunted, what would you suggest? Let them continue to overpopulate and die of disease and starvation, perhaps, spreading disease all the while? or maybe in view of such overpopulation deer-hunting today is a good thing. At least, it isn't any worse than growing cows to be killed and eaten. Actually, if deer hunters eat the deer, I believe they are performing a valuable service to the species as a whole and are reducing the perverse cycle of growing and killing animals for food, which incidentally is a terribly inefficient use of energy and resources (not to mention that it is an unclean business, and further damages the oxygen/carbon dioxide ratio in our atmosphere which is coming under increasing pressure as the rain forests are being depleted worldwide.


So hunting for sport is IMO somewhat sickening IMO, but hunting seriously overpopulated species for food should probably be encouraged.

Well first off while I only watched for a couple minutes, I have seen entire episodes of this madness in the past. I agree that hunting is surely difficult "sport" but what gets me is that these guys are actually feeling proud of killing a creature in it's own home. Also why do these guys need all this new-fangled tecnology to do it, hunters thousands of years ago were able to do it with primitive tools. Of course they had good reason to hunt, so IMO it was totally justified. Anyway, the reason I can fault this "sport" is because it is harmful to others. Just because it isn't harmful to a person doesn't mean that it's okay. Also aren't there supposed to laws against animal cruelty? When the Deer or Elk, or whatever get hit by those bow hunters it's just awful. These bastards would shoot the animal then say things like "we follow the blood trail until we find that the animal has fallen". That's sadistic if you ask me- shooting a deer then letting it run around until it collapses because it has an arrow stuck in it's chest. And what about the unskilled hunter who misses and hits the deer in the leg or something......that's cruel. Deer ends up crippled for the rest of its life because some jackass couldn't aim.

Anyway, I'm not some tree hugger or anything but I just really think this stuff is cruel.

You bring up some good points. But I have a question....(I am not trying to defend the meat industry here either) but doesn't a higher amount of carbon dioxide in the air actually promote plant growth? And in turn don't plants produce oxygen? What is it that leads to rainforest depletion? i am interested in finding out what the answers are. If you can answer I would appreciate it.

Also, I do agree that hunting for food is okay, it's mostly those sport hunters that kill animals just for their heads, and the bow hunters who inflict gruesome pain upon animals that I hate.

I'm not very knowledgeable about rainforests. They are being destroyed at an tremendous rate in Brazil. People are clearing them.

John,


I intended the above post as a response to Goat's post, not to yours.


The passenger pigeon and the dodo...I would like to have been able to see a real live dodo.

Yeah it's pretty sad and it's evn a political nightmare to because the conservatives seem like they don't give a hoot about anything to do with the environment, but the liberals are so militant that many of them would rather we didn't even drive cars. We need some middle ground here.

I'm not singling you out here, and I'm less than perfect on this myself...but do you eat meat? Why do we view the wild animals that are killed with so much more empathy than the ones killed on ranches and in slaughterhouses? If it's disgusting then it's disgusting right on down the line. We don't think too much about it when it comes to chickens or cows, but if a few people eat dogs in Vietnam or cats in Brazil we shudder--even horses in Europe, I mean, wtf are we thinking anyway? Are people THIS much creatures of custom and habit that they rarely if ever consider things like this? I feel like a real hypocrite everytime I eat meat or chicken...I've cut down on it a lot this year. If you ask me, the whole meat industry is really disgusting... and most people who cringe at the thought of someone shooting a deer gladly eat their hamburger at lunch or dinnertime...I mean what gives here? If someone believes there is absolutely nothing wrong with killing animals for food I am not trying to argue that point or convince them otherwise...maybe it really is OK...I'm just wondering why we tend so much to view one side of the coin as pretty much OK and then cringe at the thought of shhoting a wild rabbit.


I say if someone isn't willing to kill it with his bare hands...then he should think twice about paying someone else to do his dirty work for him. It's actually LESS moral to pay others to do it, IMO.

I'm not Goat, but I'm chiming in because you make a good point here. I eat meat and think its OK to kill animals for our benefit. But I dislike the hypocrisy about the meat issue. If you eat meat you are responsible for having an animal killed for your needs or wants. If you don't want to kill the animal, don't eat meat. The radical end of the animal rights movement is misguided IMO, but they are not hypocrites. The ALF and those groups are against all uses of animals. No leather, no pets, no meat, no human drugs made from animals, nothing. Some humans would die if their policies were implemented, but they are fine with that.(I am not) But their position is a consistent one.


I think the talk about the boundaries of hunting ethics or animal cruelty is a difficult one. Most people, hunters, non-hunters, meat eaters and vegans can agree on some forms of animal cruelty. But there is disagreement on some things even among hunters. And there are a lot of issues where people just won't agree and it will be an emotionally charged fight over what is acceptable and what isn't.


The other thing I don't get is how vegetarians (the anti-meat ones, not personal-choice ones)think they're not killing anything. Agriculture kills habitat for some creatures and eating a plant involves killing a living creature. And when your salad or soy burger is shipped from one state to another, you are contributing to all kinds of threats to living creatures. Isn't the implicit moral assumption that a plant is less worthwhile than an animal the same assumption a meat eater makes when eating a critter? In the end, for humans to survive we have to kill other living things of one form or another. I understand not doing any of that killing in a cruel or wanton manner, but we kill stuff every day. Anything we do to survive as humans alters nature. So where do we draw the line?

Politics aside, maintaining healthy ecosystems is in everyones best interest.

Carrots don't scream when you chop them into little pieces.


I believe that Buddhists define it as a matter of "sentient beings." Animals have feelings and hurt when they are harmed or killed; vegetables don't have brains/nervous systems and presumably do not feel pain or have consciousness.

Unfortunately I must answer yes to your question. One thing I absolutley refuse to eat is veal, I've heard those calves are treated pretty bad, but then again if I eat beef from a company that produces veal I guess I am still contributing. Ugh what a mess. I know it's a pathetic excuse but, living on meat for the first 22 years of my life wont be an easy habit to break. I eat less now then I used to but hopefully I will be totally meat free one day. And once again I think that people who hunt and use the carcass in a non wasteful manner are okay to do so. Its those damn bow-hunters and trophy hunters that I really hate. They are just cruel. The meat industry is totally fu*ked up and I do really feel bad knowing that I support them every time I chow on some chicken or beef.

This is a little off topic but it is sad that so many of those animal rights people are so far left and militant. They have lots of good ideas, but often aren't taken seriously because of their outlandish behavior and attitudes. If they were more rational maybe they could get some good things done to end animal cruelty- especially that which goes on in the meat industry and cosmetic industry.

I agree that is where most anti-meat people draw the line - the sentient being level, but I'm not sure this is as easy a distiction as people want it to be. Even then, agriculture ends up killing other creatures. I think its OK for agriculture to exist (not everybody does believe it or not) and it is OK to use animals. For humans to live we have to kill things and change nature. We shouldn't destroy our planet of course, but neither should we feel the need to apologize for our existence as the hard-core environmentalists do.

It is an interesting question with numerous aspects, and one which I have not fully resolved on a personal level. I agree that we ought not to need to apologize for our existence.

Veal is the worst when it comes to cruelty to animals, as far as I know. I never eat veal either, although I have eaten meat a few times this year, and a bit more often eat fowl or fish.