77 preflop decision against short stack pushes.

[Maier]

2-4 6 handed on fulltilt. EP has 50 dollars left and is going in with any two broadway cards. MP is really bad and will call a lot of raises with two broadway and has 130 behind. MP+1 is a tight player, havent seen him make any moves and has shown down good cards, has 120 behind.

Hero is UTG with 77. Hero calls with 77 and has 700 behind.
EP moves in for 50, MP and MP+1 both call rather quickly. Without thinking, should my best move +ev wise be to push both players in preflop? Would calling and pushing any board without an AK be acceptable as well?

For argument sake, what if they (MP MP+1) had 200 behind. Is this a call or push, or does this decision become more player dependent. What are my numbers against AK and K9? am I 36 percent to win this? Against three random hands, is my EV so marginal that it becomes a fold in the event that one of them does have 8s or better?

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
2-4 6 handed on fulltilt. EP has 50 dollars left and is going in with any two broadway cards. MP is really bad and will call a lot of raises with two broadway and has 130 behind. MP+1 is a tight player, havent seen him make any moves and has shown down good cards, has 120 behind.

Hero is UTG with 77. Hero calls with 77 and has 700 behind.
EP moves in for 50, MP and MP+1 both call rather quickly. Without thinking, should my best move +ev wise be to push both players in preflop? Would calling and pushing any board without an AK be acceptable as well?

For argument sake, what if they (MP MP+1) had 200 behind. Is this a call or push, or does this decision become more player dependent. What are my numbers against AK and K9? am I 36 percent to win this? Against three random hands, is my EV so marginal that it becomes a fold in the event that one of them does have 8s or better?

[/ QUOTE ]

w/ 200 its an easy push.

with 700 i think you just call.

[edge]

I don't know the math exactly, but my instinct is that you should fold this. With three shortstacks in, you have no chance of knocking out a higher pair by pushing. Even if all three have overcards, your equity isn't too high.

Here's the pokerstove data:

11,645,263,784 games 87.125 secs 133,661,564 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 24.4380 % 24.33% 00.11% { 77 }
Hand 2: 19.8680 % 19.04% 00.83% { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 3: 20.8497 % 19.56% 01.29% { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 4: 34.8443 % 34.09% 00.76% { TT+, AJs+, AJo+ }

It's a lot closer than I expected, and I gave them fairly conservative ranges. It looks like your best move is to push preflop to avoid folding the best hand on the flop, especially since you'll only have one pot-sized bet left anyway.

[9cao]

I say it depends on how the other 2 shortstacks have been playing. Usually a limp-reraise looks like a big pair so you might lose one of them, putting $50 of dead money in the middle. Assuming he has 2 overs you are slight favourite on the side and I am sure you are winning the main at least 25% of the time. However, at that point I can't really see the shortstacks folding.

[Maier]

hey,

I dont really understand the + signs in front of the pokerstove data.

But, i do understand the anallysis. I guess that since I dont have much folding equity, and since I am only a marginal favorite given than I;m not dominated, which I am not sure of, this is probably an easy fold after some deliberation.

Can someone explain the pokerstove data?

[AceHiStation]

[ QUOTE ]

I dont really understand the + signs in front of the pokerstove data.

[/ QUOTE ]

ATs+ meants ATs-AKs... basically a plus means "this hand, and any similar hand better"... ATs+ = ATs-AKs, TT+ = TT-AA. Hope that's clear enough.
-Ace

[BluffTHIS!]

If EP is playing a tight short stack strategy, then versus him you are either badly beaten or only a slight favorite versus AK or AQs. But the most relevant factor is that the two other callers have just put in more than 1/3 of their stacks respectively, and often at least one of them is going to see the river even with only overcards to the flop. Their stack sizes do not give you the implied odds to hit a set and get paid, in addition to your poor situation versus the EP push. I would fold. The same would apply to their having stack sizes of 200 instead.