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View Full Version : Does this HU single-draw lowball strategy carry over to TD?


MarkGritter
07-19-2005, 04:11 PM
I came across this Michael Wiesenberg article in Card Player:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=13018&m_id=49

He notes that in HU single-draw lowball, always limping with weak hands and raising with strong hands during HU play is not good strategy. Nor is coming in for a raise on every hand. Instead some sort of mixed strategy is called for.

The game-theoretic optimal play he suggests is to limp 1/4 of the hands you would like to raise (and reraise if raised!), and raise 1/4 of the hands you would like to limp. (Based on how your opponent reacts--- his presumably non-optimal response--- you can vary these percentages.) The reason he states that this is the game-theoretical optimal amount is the 3:1 odds your opponent is getting after you open-raise from the small blind (button).

Now, does this reasoning apply in triple draw as well? Typically I come in for a raise with any playable hand HU, or just fold. A thinking opponent can then reraise with any pat hand (rare) or 1-card draw, because on average I will have only a two-card draw, and sometimes a three-card draw.

But, the implied odds are completely different, since there are three betting rounds to come instead of one. Hand strength is considerably altered as well, since there are fewer pat hands in TD than in SD. Finally, the small blind will act last on three rounds (and three draws) in TD instead of only one round and one draw in SD. Do these factors mandate the aggressive strategy of entering for a raise, or does it make sense to consider limping as part of a mixed strategy? If so, is there a different balance that would be more appropriate?

07-21-2005, 08:54 AM
If you'll refer to Daniel Negreaunu Triple Draw section in Super System II, he says to raise anytime you plan to play a hand. But, if you have 2-3-4-7 or some other potential nut draw, it is okay to let people draw two against you since you're always a favorite over them. Sure, it requires gamble, but if your bankroll is big enough to handle swings, it'll even out.

randomstumbl
07-21-2005, 09:05 AM
I don't know the answer to this, but there was a pretty good thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2834398&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=1&vc=1) in the Poker Theory forum, that probably applies to this.

I'm not able to visualize the math that would make this right. I guess the idea is that you get to limp reraise a lot. It seems like this would work much better against an aggressive opponent. Of course, HU, it's probably correct for your opponent to be aggressive.

Edited to add: the big difference between this situation and single draw is that your opponent can easily see the strength of your hand. You won't get future action without improving. On the other hand, when they're drawing at 34 and hit a 2, they'll give you more action. It seems like you get the worst of both worlds, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm undervaluing the benefits.

MarkGritter
07-21-2005, 11:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If you'll refer to Daniel Negreaunu Triple Draw section in Super System II, he says to raise anytime you plan to play a hand. But, if you have 2-3-4-7 or some other potential nut draw, it is okay to let people draw two against you since you're always a favorite over them. Sure, it requires gamble, but if your bankroll is big enough to handle swings, it'll even out.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a full game raising to enter is usually correct, but that is the case in single-draw lowball too. But DN's chapter doesn't really address heads-up play well.

If it is always correct to raise to enter HU in TD, what is it that makes the differece?

The positional advantage of the button is magnified compared to SD?

The fraction of playable hands is smaller compared with SD?

The strength of your hand is apparent for multiple rounds?

The potential for additional small bets in the first round is a smaller portion of the pot?

I think that against an aggressive opponent it is worth limping in with an occasional 1-card draw or pat hand, if villian will usually raise a 2-card draw when you do so (allowing you to 3-bet.) Otherwise you are usually paying 2 bets when ahead and 3 bets when behind. To make this work you must also limp some 2- and 3-card draws. But, the fraction at which to limp instead of raise is not clear.

randomstumbl
07-21-2005, 11:39 AM
My argument is that there is almost no deception.

When you raise, you can have anything from a 3 card draw to a pat hand. Once you draw, we have a fairly small range of hands. So, there's basically zero deception after the draw.

Pat: 9 or better
1 card draw: drawing at an 8 or better
2 card draw: drawing at an 8 or better
3 card draw: started with 2 wheel cards

Even most bad opponents will fold when they see you're going to be drawing many fewer cards. So, you're giving them a free shot to throw away 3-5 cards to catch up to your hand. Do you want them doing that when you have a weak hand? Do you want them throwing away their mediocre hands when they see you drawing one?