My first Mid/High Stakes post. AJs in the CO.

[Grease]

Turning Stone 15/30.

Table is very loose/aggressive, but there are a few solid spots (I think, the game is only 30 min old at this point.) PFR was kinda loose, fairly aggressive, but also seemed to be a thinking player. SB seemed tight, but I hadn't seen him play anything yet. Others seem to be LP to LA. EP is fairly LP, likes to defend blinds and loves to cold-call raises. MP2 seems to be loose/aggressive but definitely not a moron.

This was my first venture into games this high (5/10 and 6/12 live, 2/4 and 3/6 online), and a lot of it seemed to happen quickly, so my reads are far from perfect, but I think I have a good idea of how they played.

How well/poorly did I do? I think there's a lot of room for debate on this hand on almost every street. Thanks for the responses.

I have A /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the CO.

EP calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, hijack raises, I call (mistake 1?), button calls, blinds call, limpers call. People on other tables ask for cards and throw money in.

Flop : A /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

All check to hijack, he bets, I raise (mistake 2?), SB 3-bets, EP calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, hijack calls, I call.

Turn 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB bets, all call except hijack.

River 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, EP checks, MP2 bets, I...?

[MrStretchie]

I'm hardly an expert either, although I have been around here for a little while now.
I like your play on all streets. Preflop CC is fine as the pot is multi-way. Especially with the backdoor flush draw on the flop, the raise is good. Besides, hijack would basically auto-bet in this situation, so there's a decent good chance you're ahead of his high PP/KQ/etc. Plus with 3 callers before him, he could have raised preflop with a lot of multi-way hands.
After SB's 3-bet, considering his tight nature and preflop call, I'd be folding the turn without a flush draw. You did catch one however, so the call is obviously good.
Since SB checks the river, MP could have anything. More likely he's bluffing into SB's sudden weakness in this huge pot than he made a straight. Maybe he's been calling along with a weak ace the whole time and now thinks it might be good. Anyway, it's worth a call for sure.

[Fianchetto]

Preflop call is fine with the multiway action.

Flop raise is good.

Turn, I'd consider a raise here. With this monster pot you need to take aggressive action to improve your chances of winning it. You may have the best hand here, but even if you don't you have a lot of ways to improve. If you are behind and they all call your turn raise, then it was a value raise with your nut flush draw.

River is a call.

[PokerHund]

The CC preflop is ok. The flopraise is a must here. I think raising the turn would be my line here and when reraised, fold the river if unimproved. If i only get called, i'll check behind the river if there is not bet and i don't improve.

In your case i think i make the crying call on the river if i don't have a strong read about the bettor. I don't believe MP has a set here as he would have raised the turn. 56 for a straight seems possible. But you have to call the LAG.

[MrStretchie]

Good point re: value of turn raise. Didn't notice how many there were to the turn. Still, that's expecting people to call 2 cold on the turn. It sure looks like you're behind to SB though, so you're not really helping your chances of winning with that raise.

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
The CC preflop is ok. The flopraise is a must here. I think raising the turn would be my line here and when reraised, fold the river if unimproved. If i only get called, i'll check behind the river if there is not bet and i don't improve.

In your case i think i make the crying call on the river if i don't have a strong read about the bettor. I don't believe MP has a set here as he would have raised the turn. 56 for a straight seems possible. But you have to call the LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah true.. you the turn raise does allow you to check behind on the river..
And in fact, my original advice was terrible, as you have enough in 2-pair outs to call the turn even if you don't pick up a flush draw.
Would you still be raising in that case?

[ike]

Against 3 players I'm fairly sure you have a value raise on the turn. Someone would have to have a set a very large percentage of the time for this not to be the case.
Against most of the TS regulars you can fold this river. This bet always gets called in that game and its almost always a straight, never less than 2 pair.

[bernie]

3 bet preflop.

I might've waited to the turn to apply the hammer instead of the flop.

Raise the turn. If anything, you're likely at least close to even money on the raise if not +EV. If you don't improve, you check behind on the river.

b

[DcifrThs]

nice to have a perfectly played hand as your first post. no getting away from this at all given the size of the pot...no "expert" folds. if the sb WILL check the river or you can fold out people who call for 1 bet o nth turn then raising is best sinec you have a lot of equity regardless of what the others have and you are going to call another bet anyways on the river so if SB will now become passive on the turn/river (wont 3bet ) then you should raise...not many people fit that description though so a call is a safe play

call the MPs river bet.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet preflop.

I might've waited to the turn to apply the hammer instead of the flop.

Raise the turn. If anything, you're likely at least close to even money on the raise if not +EV. If you don't improve, you check behind on the river.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

all your points are valid and you're in a big pot so lots of "extra bet" choices...but the sb seems ecstatic w/ his hand and may 3 bet that harmless turn which makes you put in more money as a dog, AND you'll want to call teh river in case he's getting cute...therefore unless the sb fits the propoer description a call is ok since you want to put 2 more bets in here...

preflop i like a call as you dont necessarily want all the effects of a 3 bet and just calling allows you to raise the flop which i think is the play here (you have to be in a situation where the equity of your hand will GREATLY change on the turn ... AJhh will not b/c it already has top pair and you want to raise out gutshots that can call for 1 bet but not 2)

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

sorry...sb checked turn, didn't see that...

raise turn!! check behind river UI.

-Barron

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry...sb checked turn, didn't see that...

raise turn!! check behind river UI.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh.. SB bet turn..
Are you multi-posting? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry...sb checked turn, didn't see that...

raise turn!! check behind river UI.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh.. SB bet turn..
Are you multi-posting? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

my first post is what i wanted to say...you wont fold people for 1 bet who have already put that bet in.

so raise turn only under conditions described.

-Barron

[mike l.]

this one's easy. raise the turn. the rest of the hand is fine. call the river and expect to lose. the pot is big though.

[Grease]

When MP bet, I thought about folding for a second, then called when my brain started to work again.

SB and EP folded, and MP had his hand ready to go into the muck as he said "I have a 9, I'm sure you can beat that." I never saw his hand but he had T9 based on the action and what I thought of him as a player.

I think that raising the turn in this situation would have gotten me to a free showdown, and looking back on it, I think it may have been the right move.

I still think 3-betting PF may be correct as well, but I think the call worked, because as Dcfrthis pointed out, it allows me to raise the flop if I hit (and won't allow for a cap from the hijack).

Thanks for all the responses guys. Hopefully I'll venture this high again soon.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
but the sb seems ecstatic w/ his hand and may 3 bet that harmless turn which makes you put in more money as a dog,

[/ QUOTE ]

You still might be very close to even money on it. Unless he 3 bets and knocks some players out. However, if one waits to the turn on this one, you now have a situation where you just 'woke up' and raised. He might be leary of his hand to 3 bet it. It may also help define his hand better.

Which is why I'd also 3 bet this preflop. It can make the hand easier to play. I'm not a big fan of coldcalling with the raiser on my direct right. Personally, I just hate it.

[ QUOTE ]
AJhh will not b/c it already has top pair and you want to raise out gutshots that can call for 1 bet but not 2)


[/ QUOTE ]

A gutshot can call a flop raise profitably on this. There's 16 bets in going to the flop. (2 bets 8ways) Bet to you and you raise, you're giving someone about 10-1 right off. (1/2 the bets in = 8 plus initial bet who will call your raise + your 2 bets) Easy call with a gutshot draw. The implied odds will make it. You're not protecting much raising this flop unless people will fold incorrectly.

If you're going to play the pot manipulation game, the pot will already be big on the flop with the single raise preflop. There's many limpers already in. You may as well build it another bet through the field. You may also get some to fold preflop leaving some dead money in.

b

I was in this game. I dont remember this hand. My guess is you were in the 5 seat. I hope you werent the 4 seat if you were youre a fish.