More Evidence China Is Not Our Friend

The link provided has been a pain. You will have to click on "News Home" when you get to the main page and then scroll to the story titled "Video glorifies attack on US." The story details how the Chinese government is selling DVDs and books celebrating the terrorist attack on us. Sorry I couldn't get the link to work better. Anyway, they are telling the people that we are just a paper tiger and there is nothing to be afraid of. Just look at those Americans running in the rubble. I'm so glad we kiss their butts at every opportunity. China is our enemy. The sooner we treat them as an enemy the better off we will be. Let's see if we will really back up our words on fighting terrorism. Our President said that countries have to choose sides. I say China has chosen the terrorists' side. I hope we make it a bad choice for them. I will be more enthusiastic about my boycott of Chicom products. I am so glad I didn't buy a flag made in China. We should ban all trade with China for a while to send them a little message. Lump them in with Cuba on the Trading With The Enemy Act. That might be fun.

Yeah China sucks, but this country always seems to band over backwards to them. I don't get it. Maybe it's all the liberalism or something.

. . . but the United States have no friends!


And neither does any other country on the face of the Earth. For better or worse, countries have no friends - they have interests.


When China's and America's interests coincide, they are friends. When those interests are in a parallel, non-adversary course, the two countries are "good world citizens". When those interests collide, they are enemies.


Tell me, by the way, what American interests exactly are threatened today by China ?


(I warn you, don't start about "the Communist threat". I wanna drink my beer in peace.)

I think there is a fine but important distinction in this case. The Chinese government does not really reflect the will or the interests of the Chinese people--at least, not nearly as well(;-)) as our government reflects the will or the interests of the American people. Thus there must be a distinction made between the interests of the Chinese people, that is, CHINA, and the interests of the Chinese government. This distinction is far more pronounced in China than it is here. The USA may in fact share many interests with the Chinese people while conflicting on many of those interests with the Chinese government.


It should also be noted that the interests of the government probably conflict with the interests of the people to a larger extent in China than in the USA.


What a joke the name is: the PEOPLE's Republic of China. IMO it is too bad the old guard doesn't die of old age a little more quickly.

> but this country always seems to band over backwards to them. I don't get it.


It's the food man. Don't know what I'd do without Chinese food!

Our first interest is our survival and the survival of our allies. China has been buying technology from us to develop ICBMs w/ good MIRV technology. Perhaps they will be rational enough not to use them on us. But they will use their muscle to hurt our allies (I won't call them friends) in the Pacific. Taiwan will be taken over and China will figure the US won't do anything about it because we will be afraid of being nuked. That is their avowed policy. Here is what the PLA General Xiong Guangkai, the Chicom deputy chief of staff for intelligence said, Taiwan was "...a matter of vital interest to us. It is a matter of national unity. We are ready to sacrifice a million people for Taiwan." The general didn't say this in some rally to the troops, he said it to a former US assistant secretary of defense. I won't go on philosophically about the depth of the evil demonstrated by this statement, but suffice it to say it is the essence of the evil of oppressive collectivist regimes, whatever their current form is.


The general went on to say regarding Chicom nuclear capability and relations with the US, "In the end, you care a lot more about Los Angeles than you do about Taipei." Of course the US cares more about Los Angeles than Taipei. And that is what China is banking on. Also, given how China takes a very long view of things, I would expect them to retaliate against Japan for WWII if they get the chance. But this is just my deduction based on what they are doing and how they go about things.


I think if you are willing to let the Chicoms go about their business in the name of their "interest", you should give the US the same slack. But we are obviously in a Cold War with China, except the US doesn't want to believe it. Why would China illegally funnel money to the corrupt Clinton administration to get trade rules lifted to buy the equipment they need to make better missiles? (The design of the new Chicom warhead was stolen by the Chicoms from Los Alamos, and they produced a warhead similar to the American W-88) Well, I think they would subvert the American electoral process, bribe their way to our technology, and spy on us if their interests clashed with those of the US. What do you think?


Notice I didn't even mention the horrors of Chinese domestic policies, like executing those who meditate and selling their organs on the black market. Or when they kill of student protesters. I suppose that doesn't affect our "interest" much.

Pretty good point, C, X, M whoever you are. You can't be M because you are to rational.

"The Chinese government does not really reflect the will or the interests of the Chinese people--at least, not nearly as well(;-)) as our government reflects the will or the interests of the American people. Thus there must be a distinction made between the interests of the Chinese people, that is, CHINA, and the interests of the Chinese government."


Governments of nations are not concerned about the interests of the people of other nations, insofar as those peoples cannot affect the foreign policy of their respective governments. The rest is just so much hot air. A casual glance at the horrors perpetrated right this minute round the globe will convince you : Governments of western democracies will talk the talk endlessly (e.g. Turkey) but will walk the walk only when it is to their direct interest to do so (e.g. Yugoslavia, most certainly a champion of human liberties compared to Turkey).


"It should also be noted that the interests of the [Chinese] government probably conflict with the interests of the people to a larger extent in China than in the USA."


"Who gives a fuck", the State Secretary sighs as he closes the briefing dossier from the China Bureau and turns off the bed lamp.


"What a joke the name is: the PEOPLE's Republic of China. IMO it is too bad the old guard doesn't die of old age a little more quickly."


A Cornelius Castoriadis freebie for John Cole : "U.S.S.R. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Four nouns, four lies..."

Since the Cold War is over, the United States have close to zero interest in standing up for Taiwan! (And, let's face it, the Chinese are not a serious adversary, at least not an adversary who could seriously justify the status of being in some sort of Cold War with them! Forget what the Pentagon screams and hollers. That's just the defense industry salesmen anxious no to lose the yellow brick road..)


The nation of Taiwan can sink in the ocean tomorrow and American interests will not be affected in the slightest. Probably the U.S. will be relieved as well! (Does all this reads too cynical for you? I'm so sorry.) Whereas, the Chinese consider, for their own reasons, logical or not, the re-unification issue as a "vital" one for their country's interests. It doesn't take a wizard of logic to see which way the wind blows for Taiwan.


The residual value of the Taiwan-U.S. "alliance" is proportionate to how much the Americans wish to maintain their creditworthiness as an honest ally and a country of its word. That's about the size of it : the Americans just crave to get out from an old & bothersome IOU they've written when "times were different".


And no, "the horrors of Chinese domestic policies, like executing those who meditate and selling their organs on the black market, or when they kill of student protesters", as you write, are NOT affecting the interests of the United States. Not one bit! The United States will make a fuss about it when it's convenient and they will sweep the whole unpleasantness under the (red) carpet when they want to get chummy again.


Turn on your TV sometime and see for yourself.


--Cyrus

I think trading with China does affect American interests, but I do recognize that my government disagrees with that. But I don't agree with US China policy. When my government helps China, it is indirectly supporting their barbaric practices. That does affect my interests, because I do have an interest in not supporting that stuff. I know the reality of politics and diplomacy, and know the world does not measure up to ideals in many ways. Sometimes we should give it a shove in the right direction though.

Cyrus,


I wasn't trying to address the degree of concern (or lack thereof) of governments for the welfare of people in nations other than their own. I was addressing the degree of lack of concern of the Chinese government for the welfare of their own people. I was also pointing out that the interests of the Chinese government diverge from the interests of the Chinese people to a greater degree than the interests of our government diverge from the interests of our people.


Yes, nations have interests, not friends, but the interests of the nation's people are not necessarily the same as the interests of the ruling power in that nation...Iraq being a prime example. The interests of the Chinese people relative to the USA, may in certain instances be very different than the interests of the Chinese government relative to the USA.

Oh, now Cyrus your making claims against Mr.Powell that Mr.Nixin, Mr.Kissinger,and Mr.GHW Bush would find distasteful. You are also insinuating that Mr.Powell expresses wishes not condoned by the current President. He works under the auspices, and approval of the President.

OK, I give up, I can't get a read on you. You have me totoally outplayed.

Reading bad spelling makes you go on tilt.