if you're a 20 something las vegas pro...please share

[CDSNUTSINYAMOUTH]

so you're young...you're in vegas and you get to make a six digit or more income from playing cards...
isn't this the dream life?
I read blogs and other stuff about the poker lifestyle...for an example an article in bluff magazine about the unabomber and antonio...how they play cards...make a lot of money...go out and party rocks and ring style and live the life of a "celebrity"
is it really all that glamorous?
it sounds like an awesome time to spend a couple of years in your 20s being a poker pro in vegas....you get to have a good time with friends...go out late at night everyday...wake up in the afternoon....meet celebrities and possibly hit stardom in the televised tournaments.
or is it not all that cracked up to be...

what do you guys think? any young poker pros care to share?
thanks

[cpitt398]

It's hard to go out and party with friends and play poker at the same time. Most of the good games are going at the same time and days of the week as the best times to go out and party.

I don't really know what else to add b/c I'm no where close to making six digits a yr. and I doubt many people are. I haevn't set my alarm clock in over 3 months though, so if you consider that a highlight, then ya its 1.4

[TStoneMBD]

the nice thing about being a pro player making 6 digits in vegas is that you can make your entire life one big party if you really want to.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I like to suffer, it makes me happy.

TSP

[phish]

I would say the very best players (those who can crush the 150/300 games and up) have a great life. Don't need to play all that much and make tons of money. But for most pro's, grinding it out at the 40/80 games or so, it's more like a real job, albeit better than many other jobs out there. Then there are the pro wannabees that may be able to beat the the 10/20 game, but not much else. Their lives are pathetic. I'd rather be a migrant grape picker.

So, don't "turn pro" unless you've been successfully crushing the 50/100 game for awhile.

That's for B&M play. Internet play is a bit different.

[limon]

Poker is great. It may be the most enjoyable, rewarding pastime ever invented. Poker has added tremendously to my mental skill set, my business contacts, and my pocketbook. But, like all things, it has a point of diminishing returns. Many of the biggest losers in poker are good players who cant figure this out or don’t see it coming. They believe, mistakenly, that the game will just get funner and funner and more interesting as time goes by. This is not true, not for poker, not for anything. You don’t believe me, listen to this.

While poker is definitely a good time, I would surely rather be bonin’. I assume you’re the same way. It seems that the best job in the world would be getting paid to bone, right? Well, not so fast. I knew this dude named Randy, he was a pretty normal dude, sorta boring and bland but he liked to play poker and he played in one of my home games. One night at the game he was so happy, he told us he hooked up with a stripper he’d been goin to see at the club for about a month. He said he’d been asking her to go out with him and she finally agreed. The chick was from Hungary and more than a little wild looking. One night he brought her to the game, he said she liked poker. Well, I think when she said poker she meant poke-her. About 20 minutes into the game she seemed to become bored and started making out with Randy. The next thing you know she was on his lap and doin the full lap dance thing. She didn’t take off her clothes, which was no big loss, but she was quite the nutty fruitcake.

Well, as it turned out she was into a lot of other stuff too magazines, movies etc. The last time I saw him at the home game he told us he was going to be in a porno movie with her. He said her stage name was Siren. I called him and invited him to the game a couple times more but he was always too busy with his new porno life. I couldn’t blame him seemed like fun to me. So I didn’t see the guy for years, then one day I was at The Normandie and I saw him at a $9-18 game not looking so hot. We got to talking, he told me he wasn’t in porn anymore he worked as a bartender in Hermosa Beach. I invited him back to the home game and little by little his crazy life story started to leak out. Turns out he got way into “the lifestyle”. Started doing fetish movies, breath play, ass play, blood play you name it. He nearly bled to death in one film where he was supposed to get his pinky chopped off at the exact same time he, uhhh, made whoopee on his partner. But that’s not the worst part. It turns out that he went so far that he cant even get a boner anymore, not even a little poke! Nothing stimulates him, what kinda hell is that.

Guys who play poker everyday get the exact same way. Without any outside stimulation they need to get all their stimulation from poker. It causes them to play in worse and worse games at worse and worse times, just for the action. Then one day u’ll see them practicing the poker version of auto erotic asphyxiation, short handed limit poker at 10am after pulling an all nighter. Bye bye bankroll.

So you still wanna be a pro poker player. Give it up. It makes no logical sense. The first thing you need to understand is that to start playing at a level high enough to earn a living you need a large bankroll. Many have written about the size necessary to live through x number of standard deviations assuming you make 1 big bet and hour and still afford your living expenses and yada, yada, yada. I’m not sure what their final answer was but in my experience, to play 20-40 limit and above (5-10nl), which is what you need to do to make a living. And to have enough extra to live a comfortable life, you need at least a $100k starting bankroll. If you play as a prop it can be lower, maybe $75k (but then you have to play shorthanded). If you want to live in a “by the hour, day or month” motel and eat at the buffet every day you can probably start with $50k, but why would you want to do that just to play poker? You can do much better things with a $50k nestegg and still play poker. The poker game will always be there, the other options may pass you by. The opportunity cost for using your nestegg/windfall as a poker bankroll is just too high. You could use that money to buy real estate and get passive income from the rents. You could use the money to start your own business which would have much better tax breaks than “professional gambler” and possibly provide you with that all illusive passive income. Poker will never provide passive income, you will never have employees or dividends or rents. To make the money you have to put in the hours, period. And, just like B Real says, “although it may be a fun job, its still a job”. Nearly all pro poker players do something else (or several other things) on the side. POKER GETS BORING. And if poker is your sole source of income that boredom will kill you. Your play wont be sharp, you’ll sit in bad games, and you’ll leak away your bankroll.

If you try to earn a living playing poker on a short bankroll you are destined to fail. The only reason I have earned so much over the years playing poker is due to the fact that it is not my only source of income. I hesitate to say it’s not my primary source of income because many years I have made more playing poker than in real estate, the stock market, or other small business ventures. The reason I make money playing poker is because I am selective and patient. I treat it as one of my investments or businesses. I don’t have to play. I can wait for the right opportunity or create the right opportunity. If poker is your sole source of income then you need to play. Subsequently you will find yourself in bad games too often. You will work hard to beat these games but they, in conjunction with the rake, will grind you down.

BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF WINNING POKER IS GAME SELECTION. If half the players in the game you’re in aren’t absolute dunce contributors you are in the wrong game. Now you cry, “But games like that don’t show up every day, wah, wah, wah”. Yes they do, if you look. I can virtually guarantee you that right now as we speak there is a $20-40 limit game at Commerce, a $5-5 no limit game at The Palace or a $2-5 to go pot limit game in the back of an Armenian cigar shop where well over half the players are absolute dunce contributors. In fact I can absolutely guarantee you that ALL of the players in my game are absolute dunce contributors. If if those games dry up I can always find a good line up in my home game because I hand picked them, and that’s what you should do. The best game you will ever find is the one you build yourself. The worst you’ll ever find is short handed limit poker.

[Moneyline]

I think the glamour stories you read in Bluff magazine are as inaccurate as the horror stories some posters have related in this thread. The reality is somewhere in between.

Personally, I'm a 25 y/o Vegas based pro earning in the high 5 figures... and life is good. I live in a nice apartment, sleep as late as I want, chill out by the pool in the afternoon if I get the urge, and head to a movie or a show whenever I feel like it. That said, there's no 24 hour partying and women don't fawn over me like I'm Tom Jones or something. It's a good lifestyle, and if you are strong enough at poker I recommend it.

I'm sure there are probably some pros my age who live like rock-stars, and I'm sure there are probably others who are living "like migrant workers" as another poster said. But IMO these pros are the extremes and not the norm.

[nate_king1]

I think being 20something having a lot of money and living in a place called Las Vegas can be exciting to tell the least.

[Jason Strasser]

sweet post

[Peter666]

Nice to finally hear a voice of moderate reason.

The great thing about gambling is that it gives you the ability to make your own schedule and pursue other interests as well. I also never have to spend money on holidays, as I earn money on my trips. And best of all, NO [censored] of a boss.

I don't live in Vegas, but I probably will soon.

[TStoneMBD]

your post has alot of good points, but the negatives are disgustingly exaggerated and bloated to the point of laughter.

[ QUOTE ]
you need at least a $100k starting bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes its important to have 90k sitting underneath your pillow just in case you go on one of those common 2500BB downswings.

[ QUOTE ]
You could use that money to buy real estate and get passive income from the rents. You could use the money to start your own business which would have much better tax breaks than “professional gambler” and possibly provide you with that all illusive passive income.

[/ QUOTE ]

high risk. real estate bubble. being an entrepreneur gets boring too you know. dont forget that pro poker players already know how to play the game and probably have built methods on how to improve their play that they are comfortable practicing. a skilled poker player will have to start from scratch learning how to become a businessman with no certainty whether they will succeed when they have a sure thing going with poker as it is.

[ QUOTE ]
To make the money you have to put in the hours, period.

[/ QUOTE ]

and im sure that putting in 60 hours a week building a business with high risk and no immediate returns while arguably earning a 10% chance of success is better than putting in 30-40 hours a week of poker earning a steady $40/hr while progressing in skill and increasing potential future earns dramatically.

[ QUOTE ]
Subsequently you will find yourself in bad games too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure you will, if you are a marginal player. if you are a skilled player then every game is a good game. sorry that you regularly find yourself in bad games but many do not.

[ QUOTE ]
You will work hard to beat these games but they, in conjunction with the rake, will grind you down.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, the unbeatable rake. all us pros know how the rake will always grind us down and annhiliate us all. we need to throw the ring into the fire otherwise the power of sauron will destroy us.

[ QUOTE ]
The worst you’ll ever find is short handed limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, short-handed limit poker. the worst game of them all. entirely unbeatable. youre playing 6 times as many pots per hour as you would be in full ring so youre paying 6x as much rake.

you have no chance to survive. make your time. ha ha ha ha.

[ QUOTE ]
“although it may be a fun job, its still a job”

[/ QUOTE ]

this is about the only statement that i can entirely agree with.


its amazing to me that you never mention internet poker anywhere in your post. i will give you the benefit of the doubt however, that we are discussing being a pro in vegas which implies live play, but many vegas pros rely on internet poker as their meat. they play at casinos to get out of the house and see some faces, meet fellow pros, and develop their game.

[limon]

listen kids, i dont post this in my best interest. if you want to scratch 5k together and come play in my game...all the better. t-stone im in the pl game @ hp a couple times a week in between "risky" rent gathering and "boring" business partnerships. if you want to view my post as laughable..cool, i try to write in an entertaining fashion. if you want to view it as advice...even better, you wont be the lesser for it.

[KaneKungFu123]

Limon,

t-stone lives in an apartment in South New Jersey. He has carpet on his floors, and art on his walls. Sometimes a girl comes back with him to his room. He also has a cat or something gay like that. To put it shortly - He is living the life.

When, and if, the poker boom busts, he is going to start a million dollar business.

He is the individual, a rebel.

[ QUOTE ]
listen kids, i dont post this in my best interest. if you want to scratch 5k together and come play in my game...all the better. t-stone im in the pl game @ hp a couple times a week in between "risky" rent gathering and "boring" business partnerships. if you want to view my post as laughable..cool, i try to write in an entertaining fashion. if you want to view it as advice...even better, you wont be the lesser for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[KaneKungFu123]

Limon,

t-stone lives in an apartment in South New Jersey. He has carpet on his floors, and art on his walls. Sometimes a girl comes back with him to his room. He also has a cat or something gay like that. To put it shortly - He is living the life.

When, and if, the poker boom busts, he is going to start a million dollar business.

He is the individual, a rebel.

[ QUOTE ]
listen kids, i dont post this in my best interest. if you want to scratch 5k together and come play in my game...all the better. t-stone im in the pl game @ hp a couple times a week in between "risky" rent gathering and "boring" business partnerships. if you want to view my post as laughable..cool, i try to write in an entertaining fashion. if you want to view it as advice...even better, you wont be the lesser for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[KaneKungFu123]

Limon,

t-stone lives in an apartment in South New Jersey. He has carpet on his floors, and art on his walls. Sometimes a girl comes back with him to his room. He also has a cat or something gay like that. To put it shortly - He is living the life.

When, and if, the poker boom busts, he is going to start a million dollar business.

He is the individual, a rebel.

[ QUOTE ]
listen kids, i dont post this in my best interest. if you want to scratch 5k together and come play in my game...all the better. t-stone im in the pl game @ hp a couple times a week in between "risky" rent gathering and "boring" business partnerships. if you want to view my post as laughable..cool, i try to write in an entertaining fashion. if you want to view it as advice...even better, you wont be the lesser for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Photoc]

HOLY MULTIPLE POSTINGS Batman!

[ QUOTE ]
HOLY MULTIPLE POSTINGS Batman!

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
listen kids, i dont post this in my best interest. if you want to scratch 5k together and come play in my game...all the better. t-stone im in the pl game @ hp a couple times a week in between "risky" rent gathering and "boring" business partnerships. if you want to view my post as laughable..cool, i try to write in an entertaining fashion. if you want to view it as advice...even better, you wont be the lesser for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tstone is a douchebag, you are awesome.

plese post more.

fim

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
the negatives are disgustingly exaggerated and bloated to the point of laughter.

[/ QUOTE ]


yup.

and the little sex-fiend friend of limon's had some serious issues way BEFORE he lost his boner (and is also completely off-topic and a REALLY freaking stupid story).


Vegas is fun and I did party quite heartily...but I don't envision the best clubs there exactly bending over backwards to let you skip the line just because you are crushing the 40/80 game for 1BB/hr.

Winning cash-game poker does not make you famous. It makes you a 'grinder' which is NOT synonomous with 'rock-star'.


FWIW - i don't think I would want to live in Vegas.
Thankfully, I can live wherever the hell I want pretty much as long as I have internet connectivity.


The GF and I have an eye towards New Orleans in the semi-near future which is just more our 'style' I suppose. She hasn't been to Vegas yet so that might change for all I know.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
go out and party rocks and ring style

[/ QUOTE ]

cmon guys, i think that we're all missing the most important part of this post...

[Brock Landers]

Limon,

I think you made some really good points. Perhaps some were from a slightly "half-empty" point of view, but people need to realize that it's not as easy as many think to live the poker rock star lifestyle. Obviously you are speaking from a lot of past experience and most 2+2ers should value your advice.

It's always good to hear your poker advice. Keep it coming.

[CDSNUTSINYAMOUTH]

thanks for everyone's input...especially about the guy who lost any sort of lead in the pencil.

in response to the poker pro but not a rock star and just a regular grinder...
if u won a big tournament like an WSOP event or make a final table at the WPT...then get a cool nickname like "the magician" you might end up being a rock star.
it seems these guys know how to market themselves effectively and it has really paid off....even if they just have average skills among the better pros

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Started doing fetish movies, breath play, ass play, blood play you name it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what this is but I'm excited.

[limon]

its the reason there's a lame reality tv show now to find a new lead singer for INXS.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
isn't this the dream life?


[/ QUOTE ]

There is no such thing.

-Zeno