Why will you never go pro?

[roundhouse]

I was getting a bit board of all the "I wanna go pro, should I, shouldn't I" type posts this boards seems to attract like flies to brown stuff. So I decided to speak up for the little guy. That's right, those of us who play poker and not only still work for the man, but are quite happy to do so.

Why will I never go pro? My reasons:

1. My job. Pays well. I enjoy it. Good pension. Decent holidays. My career prospects are good.

2. There is a distict possibility I'm not good enough. I'm pretty sure I'm beating the low limits (up to 2/4), but to better my current and future career earnings I'd have to be a consistent 30/60-and-above winner.

3. I enjoy poker. If it were my job I'm not sure how long this would continue.

4. The prospect of sitting in a room on my own all day, in front of a computer, makes my blood run cold. I'd have cabin fever by day two. I'm not the world's greatest socialite, but call me old fashioned, I like a bit of human company for the banter and such.

5. I have a young family. Even though I'm not the prime breadwinner, I'm not willing to trade income certainty for income uncertainty.

This doesn't mean I don't have poker aspirations. I want to move up stakes - all in good bankrolled time - to the highest level at which I can profitably play (I've only been playing regular for < 1 year). I want to master, or at least become proficient in, games other than LHE (NLHE, Stud, Stud/8, PLO, SNGs - all of which I've started dabbling in). And if I end up making a healthy surplus at the end of the year I'll happily cream some of it off for treats and poker related indulgences like books, chips etc. - supplimented income is great, just so long as I don't become reliant on it.

OK that's pretty much my rant. So in a vain attempt to make this post worthwhile I'd like to pose the following questions to my fellow never-go-pro-ers (there must be some of you out there).

Why will you never go pro?
What are your poker aspirations?
And to satiate my curiosity, what levels do you currently play?

Your friendly never-go-pro-er,
RH

[joop]

[ QUOTE ]
but to better my current and future career earnings I'd have to be a consistent 30/60-and-above winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

What job do you do that pays better than a 30/60 pro can make?

[spamuell]

I won't because it would be boring as hell. And, while poker can be challenging, it's not challenging in many different ways.

[mdeck]

I want to have an M.D. after my name.

[cardcounter0]

After expenses, what do you think a 30/60 pro makes?

[joop]

60,000 hands month @ 1BB/100 = $36,000 a month. So $432,000 a year. Minus internet connection costs, electricity, PC, etc... wouldn't add up to much.

Edit: Forgot to include rakeback, so time $432,000 by 1.25 or whatever it is. $540,000.

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but to better my current and future career earnings I'd have to be a consistent 30/60-and-above winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

What job do you do that pays better than a 30/60 pro can make?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I did the pissing contest thing of comparing 30/60 pro's on-paper EV versus my current post tax income, I'm sure I'd lose. But I get good benefits and have good career prospects (i.e. can expect better future earnings), the pro has to sort out his own pensions arrangements, healthcare etc. I have a much easier time getting a mortgage than the pro does; so pro probably rents, which is more cash out, else if he wants to buy an equivalent house to me he has to earn MUCH more...

RH

[joop]

It's not a pissing contest, you said you would have to play 30/60 to make more than you can potentially make in your current career, so I ask what you work as.

And buying a house isn't the be-all-and-end-all, you know. I can make a pretty good argument for renting your whole life and investing the money you save, and coming out ahead financially over the home buyer.

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
60,000 hands month @ 1BB/100 = $36,000 a month. So $432,000 a year. Minus internet connection costs, electricity, PC, etc... wouldn't add up to much.

Edit: Forgot to include rakeback, so time $432,000 by 1.25 or whatever it is. $540,000.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate significantly. If I played 30/60 as a pro (assuming I were good enough) there is no way I could do 60k hands a month. Every month. Every year. Maintaining a 1BB/100 expectation. I suspect there are VERY few who can.

RH

[cardcounter0]

Looks good on paper. Now find the 30/60 pro who actually meets this 100%, 100% of the time.

Then find out who is giving him 50% match on his 401k, and pays 80% of his medical insurance costs, and pays him his full winnings a couple of weeks a year when he goes on vacation and doesn't play.
/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not a pissing contest, you said you would have to play 30/60 to make more than you can potentially make in your current career, so I ask what you work as.

And buying a house isn't the be-all-and-end-all, you know. I can make a pretty good argument for renting your whole life and investing the money you save, and coming out ahead financially over the home buyer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant no offence with the pissing constest thing. To answer your question, I work in central government.

Incidently, I wouldn't buy your argument that renting + investing beats home buying, but I suspect the correct verdict differs country to country. An argument for another thread I think.

RH

[joop]

No offence taken, roundhouse.

Agreed, finding a 30/60 pro that can put in 60,000 hands a month every month of the year could prove difficult. But I think it could be done, they just choose not to do it because they would rather work a 20hr week and earn half the money - as it's still a lot of money. I know a 2/4 pro that plays 100k hands a month, how long he lasts remains to be seen, but if he can do it I can't see why 60k/month at 30/60 isn't doable.

Anyway, how much a 30/60 pro makes isn't the topic of this thread...

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
No offence taken, roundhouse.

Agreed, finding a 30/60 pro that can put in 60,000 hands a month every month of the year could prove difficult. But I think it could be done, they just choose not to do it because they would rather work a 20hr week and earn half the money - as it's still a lot of money. I know a 2/4 pro that plays 100k hands a month, how long he lasts remains to be seen, but if he can do it I can't see why 60k/month at 30/60 isn't doable.

Anyway, how much a 30/60 pro makes isn't the topic of this thread...

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Feasible without burnout? For a handful of people I grant you. But I think the real killer trying to put in so many hands at that level is game selection. Your 2/4 player will always be able to find a soft game; someone at 30/60 or higher won't have the same luxury.

Agree that it's time to hand the thread back for it's original purpose. And as it's 2.15am here I've really got to go to bed now!

RH

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]


I think you overestimate significantly. If I played 30/60 as a pro (assuming I were good enough) there is no way I could do 60k hands a month. Every month. Every year. Maintaining a 1BB/100 expectation. I suspect there are VERY few who can.

RH

[/ QUOTE ]

Maintaining 1BB/100 on 30/60 is not too difficult. However it takes a real special human being to play 60K hands a month every month for an extended period of time (assuming full ring).

[Brad22]

Every single pro complains that its stressful, not as easy as you think, will wear you out, and yes.....anything you do to an extreme will no longer be fun.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good on paper. Now find the 30/60 pro who actually meets this 100%, 100% of the time.

Then find out who is giving him 50% match on his 401k, and pays 80% of his medical insurance costs, and pays him his full winnings a couple of weeks a year when he goes on vacation and doesn't play.
/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not make a red herring out of this. Cut those hand numbers and win rates in half and it's still more than salary plus benefits plus vacation for most people, even with a good career. At 5/10 and 32000 hands per month I am pretty much matching my job income. But I would not be doing this if it weren't for that potential to move up and do a lot better.

Of course I am making less now, since I was playing 20000 hands per month while I had the job, but now I have a lot more time and flexibility. Plus I hated my job, and I am single with no real responsibilities just yet, except to support myself. The OP's concerns are valid but certainly depend on the person and situation.

[Punker]

Its not an interesting job most of the time. I'm too tilt prone. Have to play the A game at all times. Makes taxes too complicated. Questionable future job/wage security (whether due to a fade in the boom, legal changes in the USA, or a widespread increase in opposition skill at upper limits).

[Master5hake]

Reason #1 : I am not good enough /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Reason #2 : It would be difficult for me to play enough (if I was good enough) to make enough money to save for retirement/nestegg - I think playing so many hands per month, if I had an exceptionally good first half of the month, I'd be way to tempted to cruise the rest of the month, instead of continuing to grind -
working for the 'man' forces this kind of disipline on you, even if you are coming out way ahead for a month with earnings vs. expenses, if you want to keep you job, you gotta keep going -

those reasons being given, I do admire the hell out of all the succesful pros out there, and even those that may not end up being successful but give it a go anyhow and then recovering after it doesn't work out - it takes balls, and that money earned would taste a little sweeter, and probably equip one with some better money management skills than the avg person who comes right out of college into a nice salaried job

[Josh W]

I truly think that a non-pro who has a job that pays all his bills can make more money PLAYING POKER than a pro of equal skill and responsibilities over a 2ish year period.

See, I have a non-poker career. And I have a decent bankroll. But I can continue to take shots in bigger and bigger games because if I accept a higher risk of ruin, it doesn't hurt as much.

If you start with a $5000 bankroll and I do too, you have to play like 3-6. At 3-6, you won't be making a ton more than your living expenses. If it takes 75% of your hands in a month to pay bills, then you only get to add to your bankroll with 25% of your hands.

If I, having a career, only play 1/4 as much as you, but it all goes to bankroll, my bankroll will grow just as fast. And, oh yeah, I don't have to stick to a 1000BB bankroll. I could play a game with a 200BB bankroll. In this case, I could play 10-20 or 15-30. Now, if my winrate at these 'tougher' games is only half what it is at 3-6, I'm still going to be making more money PLAYING 1/4 AS MUCH.

If you go pro playing 3-6, how long will it be before you can play 100-200? Quite a while...years. If you have a job and instead start out at 10-20, you could be playing 100-200 much much sooner.

I've argued for a while that a lot of people can/should go pro, just not yet. Build a nice fat bankroll. Your earnrate isn't linear, it's exponential. Build the roll, play games that will do much much more than just 'pay the bills', and enjoy life a whole lot more.

That's a long ramble. I hope it makes sense.

Josh

[John Bedtelyon]

Why do you have to play so many hands online to be a pro? What happened to the pro that "grinds" it out in a B&M five or six days a week as long as they need?

Online poker is not the only poker there is.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to have an M.D. after my name.

[/ QUOTE ]

It aint all it's cracked up to be.

[mdeck]

I don't want to do it for status reasons. At the moment I don't envision myself doing much else. I don't care about the title so much as the job, I just thought saying it that way was more interesting than "I would rather be a Doctor."

[Mountainhawk]

$400-500K before taxes, retirement savings, medical plan, pension, dental plan, vacation, etc etc wouldn't be a 'rich lifestyle'. Upper middle class, sure, but a lot of those things are going to cost a lot more because you are on your own instead as part of an employer group.

[sthief09]

good post

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

Every single pro complains that its stressful

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not saying that online-poker pro is for everybody...but I do want to address this point.
I have stated on several occasions that online-poker-pro is easily the LEAST stressful job that I've ever had...and it's not even close.
No attitude-prick boss hounding you about one thing or another. No phone-calls that need to be returned post-hasts. No pressure for overtime unless I feel like putting in more hours.

Online-poker-pro is not the end-all-be-all. I find it to be a bit boring in some ways even though I still enjoy it.
But stressful it does not need to be even with the income fluctuations.

[Nigel]

Agree completely. For me, at times game selection can be more stressful and involve more mental energy than the game itself.

I don't like to sit at table with 9 other 1-2BB/100 winners. So when you are trying to get an absurd number of hands in every month, which is draining enough as it is, and then you add the challenge of constantly having to play your A game and constantly making sure you are playing in games where your A game is worth someting, it becomes a lot harder than it sounds.

Nigel

[jstewsmole]

[ QUOTE ]
$400-500K before taxes, retirement savings, medical plan, pension, dental plan, vacation, etc etc wouldn't be a 'rich lifestyle'. Upper middle class, sure, but a lot of those things are going to cost a lot more because you are on your own instead as part of an employer group.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a joke?

Where the [censored] do you live?

I dont know where to start with this statement.
But if u invested just 100 grand a year in Mutual funds for ten years at a 10% return u wont need pensions and retirement funds, etc.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Every single pro complains that its stressful

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that online-poker pro is for everybody...but I do want to address this point.
I have stated on several occasions that online-poker-pro is easily the LEAST stressful job that I've ever had...and it's not even close.
No attitude-prick boss hounding you about one thing or another. No phone-calls that need to be returned post-hasts. No pressure for overtime unless I feel like putting in more hours.

Online-poker-pro is not the end-all-be-all. I find it to be a bit boring in some ways even though I still enjoy it.
But stressful it does not need to be even with the income fluctuations.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty good description of what it's like for me too. Sometimes it's boring, sometimes I can't wait to get on the tables. I always love to read and study poker though. If there is any stress caused by running bad, it's from the idea that maybe I just suck at poker and won't be able to keep moving up. Actually the stress comes from the idea that if this is true, I will have to go back and find a job working for some attitude-prick boss.

[UATrewqaz]

1. I have a good degree from a good school and have a very well paying job that isn't that hard. While I hate it and would LOVE to play poker for a living, it would be difficult for me to maintani my current income with only poker.

2. I'm not the gambling type, I don't think I have the emotional stability to play for large sums of money. Since I have mad money (see above) I can play liek 1/2 and 2/4 and make some fun money and I enjoy theg ame and the competition but if I lose, who cares ya know?

3. It's hard to come back from being a pro poker player to hte "regular" world. I would hate my job a billion times more and would have a huge gap in my resume, etc.

[stigmata]

I live in a country that doesn't tax gamling winnings and has an OK public healthcare system. Mwhahahahahahah.

If I could play 10k hands a week of 30/60 at 1BB/100 for 40 weeks a year, I would be happily laughing all the way to the bank.

Making returns on that kind of money isn't too difficult with a little work, if/when the poker thing bursts.

[Brad22]

For the online pros here....

What limits are you playing at, how many tables, and how many hours a day do you do this?

How are you calculating your annual income?

[bvaughn]

Never is a really long time so I can't say never. But for the time being my reasons for not going pro are close to roundhouse's reasons:

1) I have a great job with great benefits.
2) My compensation is adequate for my lifestyle right now.
3) I have a company car I would have to give up.
4) I still enjoy my job (most days).
5) My workload is less than most jobs with the same pay.

But, I have been beating the $15/30 game 4-tabling for a little over 1BB/100 over 80,000 hands. I have a ton of room for improvement, but I truly believe that I can improve enough to make 2+BB/100 at 15/30 and eventually move to higher limits and win there as well. I've talked to my wife about "going pro", and although we both agree that it is best not to do it now, IF I ever got to the point that I could count on making $200,000 a year playing poker then it would probably be worth it financially to quit my job and play poker full-time.

I'm 30 right now, and the dream in my head is to "retire" at 40 and play poker from then on. I would have 15 years with my company so I would have a healthy 401k and pension, and if I was good enough at high-limit poker by that time, it would more than replace my salary+bonus+benefits.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
60,000 hands month @ 1BB/100 = $36,000 a month. So $432,000 a year. Minus internet connection costs, electricity, PC, etc... wouldn't add up to much.

Edit: Forgot to include rakeback, so time $432,000 by 1.25 or whatever it is. $540,000.

[/ QUOTE ]

60k hands a month is a joke.

[J.A.Sucker]

I won't go pro because the people on this board told me it wasn't a good idea.

[Boltsfan1992]

[ QUOTE ]
I was getting a bit board of all the "I wanna go pro, should I, shouldn't I" type posts this boards seems to attract like flies to brown stuff. So I decided to speak up for the little guy. That's right, those of us who play poker and not only still work for the man, but are quite happy to do so.

Why will you never go pro?
What are your poker aspirations?
And to satiate my curiosity, what levels do you currently play?

Your friendly never-go-pro-er,
RH

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, going "pro" is unlikely. Why? I still like my job. The benefits are good, and I do get time off to play when I want to.

However, I cannot say going "pro" will never happen. My wife is going back to school and when she completes her graduate degree program, she has the potential to earn double what we make together.

I wrote this before, but in order to convince me to leave my former position (which was also very good to me) and move out to Arizona for her degree program, she said, "When I finish and earn what I think the potential could be...you can LEAVE your job and play poker full time if you'd like!"

She had me at "hello."

So, until that time, I am content trying to learn to play well.

PB

[VBM]

well, i'm not in love w/ my job, but i couldn't play poker professionally b/c:

1. in the future, i want to be able to spend my time w/ my family & not think about work ever when i'm not doing it.

2. poker is not productive. you literally produce nothing and your profession is entirely about chasing BB's. the "correct" execution of your "job" is to find the weak and sick and prey on them like an animal.

3. while i think that there are a lot of very socially redeeming and underappreciated aspects to poker (critical thinking, attuned cost-benefit analysis, emotional control, etc) i also think in an online pro career you cost yourself some other "real-world" skills; e.g. career-specific experience most obviously, but also professionalism "skills" like accountability at work, creativity in your career, how to interact w/ customers, working in a team or collaborative efforts, etc.

4. i'm just not good enough to be a great poker success. but if i were, i'm almost certainly smart and talented enough to contribute something much more meaningful and/or bigger and/or more profitable than to play cards.

[ellipse_87]

4. The prospect of sitting in a room on my own all day, in front of a computer, makes my blood run cold.

The prospect of sitting in a room with the same group of people all day, every day, makes my blood run cold. Which is why generating cash flow from my computer is a wet dream for me.

[Eegs]

I like $100 NL and 3/6 limit, I'll never go pro because playing poker professionally is sort of like becoming a porn star. If you have sex all day as a job, what the hell do you do on the weekends with your girlfriend or when you go to bars and meet women what is the object? Find someone to play a bit of Scrabble with?

[wayabvpar]

1) I am no where near good enough to play as a pro

2) I play poker as a leisure activity- playing as a pro would add too much pressure and kill the fun for me

3) Retirement benefits. I have a 401k with 50% and a pension- poker doesn't provide me with these

4) Medical benefits- see above. I have had my wisdom teeth out and had a lymph node removed in the past 2 years. Total out of pocket for me was less than $500 (my dental insurance pretty much blows). If I paid for everything, I would have been out 5 figures easily.

5) Posting on message boards doesn't pay the bills when I should be grinding out hands; I can do it at my current job between tasks or when things get slow /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I get good enough/lucky enough to win a big (7 figure) tournament, I would obviously need to rethink things. For now, however, I am content with playing a 3-4 nights a week online, and once or twice a week live for fun and profit.

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
4. The prospect of sitting in a room on my own all day, in front of a computer, makes my blood run cold.

The prospect of sitting in a room with the same group of people all day, every day, makes my blood run cold. Which is why generating cash flow from my computer is a wet dream for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if the group of people in question are all highly intelligent and socially sharp, you have insight into and influence on the upper echelons of political power, and you and said group make life for millions of people in your country a little better every day? Each to their own I suppose.

RH

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]

4. i'm just not good enough to be a great poker success. but if i were, i'm almost certainly smart and talented enough to contribute something much more meaningful and/or bigger and/or more profitable than to play cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

A fellow civil servant?

[ellipse_87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4. The prospect of sitting in a room on my own all day, in front of a computer, makes my blood run cold.

The prospect of sitting in a room with the same group of people all day, every day, makes my blood run cold. Which is why generating cash flow from my computer is a wet dream for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if the group of people in question are all highly intelligent and socially sharp, you have insight into and influence on the upper echelons of political power, and you and said group make life for millions of people in your country a little better every day? Each to their own I suppose.

RH

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude...I was describing my own personal antisocial tendencies, not proscribing a general program for the masses.

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4. The prospect of sitting in a room on my own all day, in front of a computer, makes my blood run cold.

The prospect of sitting in a room with the same group of people all day, every day, makes my blood run cold. Which is why generating cash flow from my computer is a wet dream for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if the group of people in question are all highly intelligent and socially sharp, you have insight into and influence on the upper echelons of political power, and you and said group make life for millions of people in your country a little better every day? Each to their own I suppose.

RH

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude...I was describing my own personal antisocial tendencies, not proscribing a general program for the masses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair play.

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

4. i'm just not good enough to be a great poker success. but if i were, i'm almost certainly smart and talented enough to contribute something much more meaningful and/or bigger and/or more profitable than to play cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

A fellow civil servant?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me? no, i'm just another patsy for the Corporate 'Man. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
fwiw, i can see where the prospect of someone spending 20+ years in my type of Office Space-esque environment might drive enough desperation to do something else, but for me it would have to be something i'm more passionate about than poker.

[vanezza]

I like having some extra money to spend I could probably make the same amount of money playing poker as I do at my job but in about 3 months I will have saved enough to buy that classic corvette i always wanted. with my wife and kid that would not have been possible

[Ray Of Light]

I earn over half of my income from poker, and if I went full time, I could easily eclipse my 'regular' jobs income.

However, having a main income, and allowing poker to help supplement it keeps the pressure off my game. And I find I play much better, without the pressure of HAVING to get results each and every month...

[LImitPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
60k hands a month is a joke

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]

$400-500K before taxes, retirement savings, medical plan, pension, dental plan, vacation, etc etc wouldn't be a 'rich lifestyle'. Upper middle class, sure, but a lot of those things are going to cost a lot more because you are on your own instead as part of an employer group.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually this would make you very much upper class. people really tend to underestimate what it takes to put you in the top 10% of wage earners in the US (let alone world wide)

[Piper Tim]

0. I suck at poker.

1. I love my job. It is a challenging and important job, and while it doesn't pay as much as it should, it does pay enough for my current lifestyle. It has also earned me a degree of respect in the community.

2. I get good health and retirement benefits, opportunities for continuing education, and my summers off.

3. My family is growing, with two girls now and two more due in Sept.

4. My wife is supportive of my hobbies, so poker remains fun and potentially profitable.

[MicroBob]

Nice to see so many people who actually enjoy their jobs. Gives me some hope if I ever decide/have to go back to the 'regular' work world.


Lot of people have stated that they can't make as much via poker.
FWIW - Lots of people don't seem to realize that multi-tabling at 3/6 it's realistic to make $1k/week and multi-tabling 5/10 it's realistic to push $2k/week.
Yes yes....there's the whole bit about health-plans and what-not. And obviously some of the people responding are making more than $100k/yr too.

Just pointing out that it does NOT have to mean that you need to be some spectacular 30/60 player in order to turn pro.


I've been pro for a little over a year and play primarily 3/6 - 5/10.
I never played higher than 3/6 for my first 5-6 mths or so as a pro.

[gomberg]

[ QUOTE ]
I truly think that a non-pro who has a job that pays all his bills can make more money PLAYING POKER than a pro of equal skill and responsibilities over a 2ish year period.

See, I have a non-poker career. And I have a decent bankroll. But I can continue to take shots in bigger and bigger games because if I accept a higher risk of ruin, it doesn't hurt as much.

If you start with a $5000 bankroll and I do too, you have to play like 3-6. At 3-6, you won't be making a ton more than your living expenses. If it takes 75% of your hands in a month to pay bills, then you only get to add to your bankroll with 25% of your hands.

If I, having a career, only play 1/4 as much as you, but it all goes to bankroll, my bankroll will grow just as fast. And, oh yeah, I don't have to stick to a 1000BB bankroll. I could play a game with a 200BB bankroll. In this case, I could play 10-20 or 15-30. Now, if my winrate at these 'tougher' games is only half what it is at 3-6, I'm still going to be making more money PLAYING 1/4 AS MUCH.

If you go pro playing 3-6, how long will it be before you can play 100-200? Quite a while...years. If you have a job and instead start out at 10-20, you could be playing 100-200 much much sooner.

I've argued for a while that a lot of people can/should go pro, just not yet. Build a nice fat bankroll. Your earnrate isn't linear, it's exponential. Build the roll, play games that will do much much more than just 'pay the bills', and enjoy life a whole lot more.

That's a long ramble. I hope it makes sense.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a great post and has been true in my experience. I have 40something k extra that I don't need cause I have a decent paying job to pay bills and all other expenses. So My risk level is pretty high, and I can keep moving up pretty quickly in the poker world and if I lose some of that bankroll - who cares?