JJ- After LRR confused passivty

[flair1239]

PTY 5/10

UTG is a reasonable player has done nothing untoward so far. By reasonable I don't mean good. I mean he is not an idiot. He knows which hands to play, although has not figured out position yet. Can be aggressive with good hands, and probably has a good idea of deception. Or 23/4/1.7 over 80 hands with watching some hands and reading a few historys that involved him.

Hero has J /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

PF: UTG limps, MP1 limps, MP2 Hero raises, folded to UTG who raises, MP1 folds, hero calls.

Flop: (6.9 SB) (2-players)Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Villian bets, hero calls

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Check, check

River: 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Check, check

I called the flop thinking about doing something on the turn. I was still trying to sort things out. Truthfully, the BDFD firued into the equation. I was going to see the turn card, maybe pop his bet and go from there.

The turn check kind of bothered me. I really could not see him folding anything that he would LRR with. As a matter of fact I was kind of thing... if he LRRed AK, it would be pretty good checkraise by him, and I could not have called him. The same thoughts apply to a flush draw.

So I made the decision there to call down.

I have problems with this whole hand. I am not a good writer, so I probably did not really get out all the thoughts I was having. But kind of close.

Thoughts please

[shant]

In most situations I cap the LRR but given your read of this player, he probably is not doing it with trash. Calling the flop to raise the turn is cool. When he checks the turn you have to bet there. If he checkraises the turn I'm still calling down.

[Harv72b]

If UTG is a good, thinking opponent, then the range of hands he might LRR with expands pretty far beyond the traditional AA-KK, AK, because of position here. If he's limping from UTG on 5/10, he's probably got a small to medium pocket pair, and pulling a LRR here to isolate against you (as you will be raising with a big ace fairly often here) makes a lot of sense for that hand--if he can get HU against you then he's a slight favorite vs AK-ATs/KQ-KJs, and he can easily fold if an ace hits and you show a liking for it. On the other hand, by LRRing he might be able to push you off of a bigger PP by betting (or check/raising) on an ace-high flop. His postflop play is consistent with that holding, assuming that he has a similar read on you as you do of him. I would expect him to fire again on the turn with AK, unless he's determined that you absolutely, positively must have hit the queen to flat call his flop bet and will not fold before a showdown.

Irregardless, I think this is a clear value bet on the river for you; after you checked through the turn, he's fairly likely to call 1 bet on the river with an underpair or even AK, even in this relatively small pot.

[PatJ]

I should reply before reading other people's responses....

Anyway i agree with the medium pocket pair LRR to isolate hypothesis. Even so it is odd he checks both the turn and the river. I can't imagine him playing like that with anything you'd lose to.

[chief444]

Don't you think there is any value in a river bet? It seems at least somewhat likely after you check the turn that AK will call. I think you should have bet the turn also.

[ncboiler]

Cap preflop. Obviously there are only three hand which you may be behind.

Raise the flop for information. If he reraises you can be pretty sure you are behind. Just a call and I think he has A/K.

You have to bet the turn since he checked.

Ditto river

[erc007]

Villian's line says AK...the sooner you start betting...the sooner you find out...it seems like you put him on AK, but you then gave him 2 free cards. Bet the turn, the river bet is slightly more questionable (in terms of it's EV.)

[ThomasPHoolery]

Agreed... I think capping pre-flop is a mistake... you don't gain info about his hand, thin the field or necessarily push an equity edge, since many of the hands he's playing this way are either racing you or he's ahead of you.

I think you have to raise the flop. He will auto-continuation bet AK here, and most decent players will slow down, call the raise, and maybe call a turn. If you are three bet here, you can be pretty sure against a player like the one you describe you are behind.

Turn... if you decide to just call and it's checked to you, i think you have to bet here. Just curious on your logic behind checking this and the river.

I think betting the river if you've checked it this far is also a must, since it will SCREAM bluff bet to him, and he's likely to pay you off w/ A high.

[bobbyi]

Preflop is certainly good. Capping here would be terrible. I like flop and turn. But I don't understand why you checked the river. Your explanation of your thoughts (which I thought was good and well written) ends with explaining that you were confused by his turn check (which is a reasonable reaction) and decided to check it back (also reasonable).

Can you explain your thinking on the river? From your description of your opponent, it seems unlikely that he is tricky enough to go for a check-raise on the turn, miss, and try again on the river here. With a queen or better, I would expect him to bet the river very often. If he has AK, I think he often pays you off here and if he has a smaller pocket pair (which I don't think was likely initially but has become some from the way he played it), he does too. This looks to me like a very clear value bet.