Can someone explain to me the phrase "God bless America"

[Martin Aigner]

For me this one of the stupidest (or is it most stupid? sorry for my english) phrases I know. Still, you can hear it in television about 20 times a day in the USA.

Why on earth should God even consider to bless America? What is so special about America?

I really don´t think, that God (no matter whatever God you believe in) is interested in any nation on earth. Nations aren´t important. It all should be about the humans. Still, the phrase goes "God bless America".

There is one more thing which gives me a headache. Even if it was "God bless the american people", again: Why should he? What is so special about american people? (I guess it should mean the people of the USA)

Because there is a high percentage of religious people in the USA? Well, there are countries with a christian religion, where religion seems to be a more important than in the USA, such as Poland, Italy and all/most countries in middle and southern America.

Because people in the USA love each other more? Have higher moral attitudes? ...?

Anyone knows the reason.

Regards

Martin Aigner

[adios]

"For me this one of the stupidest (or is it most stupid? sorry for my english) phrases I know. Still, you can hear it in television about 20 times a day in the USA."

I would guess you're not a USA citizen. What network plays the song every day let alone more than once? I can't remember the last time I heard it on TV in the USA. I think you exaggerate a great deal with this statement. Which undermines your credibility from the get go.

"Why on earth should God even consider to bless America? What is so special about America?"

The song is a very simple and IMO humble prayer asking for IMO simple guidance and blessing from "god." I say humble because any individual making such a request for themselves would IMO be awfully modest. By your logic why should anyone pray and ask for "god's" blessing and guidance? What's so special about anyone.

"I really don´t think, that God (no matter whatever God you believe in) is interested in any nation on earth. Nations aren´t important. It all should be about the humans. Still, the phrase goes "God bless America".

Ok you hate nationalism. That's all you're really trying to say. Yes the USA does tend to be a very patriotic nation. Your post could have been made in one sentence:
"I hate USA nationalism"

I actually respect those who don't believe in nationalism. I don't have any respect for someone who lies, distorts, denigrates, ridicules, belittles, exaggerates and obfuscates to make a simple point. I don't agree with my friend John Feeney about dealing with Hussein but I respect his pacifist viewpoint a great deal and in the final analysis John is right about the insanity of warfare. Too bad you can't use John's post's as a model for honesty, dignity, clarity, and intelligence I might add. I guarantee you that John new he was going to get flack for his viewpoints before he posted. Too bad you can't express a viewpoint clearly and rationally rather than show ignorance, stupidity, and hatred. Your message about nationalism might be viewed more reasonably.

"There is one more thing which gives me a headache. Even if it was "God bless the american people", again: Why should he? What is so special about american people? (I guess it should mean the people of the USA)"

It's a request for guidance not to be treated as something special. Obviously you aren't familiar with the song at all.

"Because there is a high percentage of religious people in the USA? Well, there are countries with a christian religion, where religion seems to be a more important than in the USA, such as Poland, Italy and all/most countries in middle and southern America.

Because people in the USA love each other more? Have higher moral attitudes? ...?"

You've got a lot to learn about freedom of religion in the United States of America and about the USA for that matter. Somehow I don't think you'll put much effort into trying to learn more /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

Here is breakdown of the words:

"God bless America land that I love"

Yes Americans do tend to be patriotic.

"Stand beside her and guide her through the night with a light from above"

A simple request for divine guidance.

"From the mountains To the prairies,
To the ocean white with foam "

Yep America has em all.

"God bless America, My home sweet home."

A final request of the simple guidance requested earlier and a re-iteration of a bit of patriotism and good feeling about America.

[IrishHand]

Nice long response, but he wasn't referring to the song.

He was referring to the manner in which politicians, media personalities, etc. boldly declare "God Bless America!" (generally near the conclusion of their current diatribe).

[Martin Aigner]

Hi Tom,

"I would guess you're not a USA citizen. What network plays the song every day let alone more than once? I can't remember the last time I heard it on TV in the USA. I think you exaggerate a great deal with this statement. Which undermines your credibility from the get go"

You are right that I´m not an american citizen. But I wasn´t refering to a song. Actually I didn´t even know that there was such a song. I was just refering to the phrase.

"Ok you hate nationalism. That's all you're really trying to say. Yes the USA does tend to be a very patriotic nation. Your post could have been made in one sentence:
"I hate USA nationalism" "

Do I hate nationalism? Well, it depends. I admit that I´m not too much of a patriot. I do favour the national sportsguys on events or my local team, but that´s pretty as much as my patrotism goes. We haven´t done anything to be born or raised in one or another country, so I don´t see too many reasons to be proud of that matter of fact, no matter what citizen someone happens to be. And I admit that I think if everybody thought that way, there wouldn´t have been and still be as many wars as there are.

BTW, I´m pretty sure that if any american was born/raised where I live (Vienna, Austria), he´d love to live here (since it is a better place to live for several reasons ;-) )

"It's a request for guidance not to be treated as something special. Obviously you aren't familiar with the song at all."

Again, I didn´t mean the song.

"You've got a lot to learn about freedom of religion in the United States of America and about the USA for that matter. Somehow I don't think you'll put much effort into trying to learn more ."

Well, that´s what you think. But I can assure you that I do put some effort to learn more. Simply for the matter of fact that big parts of the world (and this includes europeans, too) are afraid of the USA. I don´t know whether you have ever been in europe, but all in all I´ve spent about half a year in the USA. And I do like the country. Still I do have some problems with americans. (Just as I do have some problems with europeans, too). Some of the problems have its roots in cultural differences, some ob them just seem to be misunderstandings.

"Yes Americans do tend to be patriotic."

You sure can bet on that :-)


"The song is a very simple and IMO humble prayer asking for IMO simple guidance and blessing from "god." I say humble because any individual making such a request for themselves would IMO be awfully modest. By your logic why should anyone pray and ask for "god's" blessing and guidance? What's so special about anyone."

Well, I think you are right on this one. But part of the reason why I posted my post was that I was in the USA for vacational reason 2 weeks ago. I´ve seen this propaganda for war in all the TV-stations. It really was kind of shocking to me. Not that america wants to go to war (although I am shocked about this, but that was not part of my post), I simply was shocked about the propaganda, which I´ve never seen before. And suddenly, these innocent words "God bless America" became part of the propaganda to me. English isn´t my mother tounge, so I might be completly wrong about this, but these words implicate in a very sophisticated way to me, that the USA is superior to any nation on earth. This phrase is not about anyone seeking help from god for himself, (although in its origing it might have been meant this way). This phrase should mean: "We are better. So God will help us".

I hope, I cold make my point clear. It´s not that easy to make the point clear in such a discussion, when you talk/write in a foreign language.

Regards

Martin Aigner

[Martin Aigner]

Well I think you go my point in a few words. Thank you :-)

Regards

Martin Aigner

[MMMMMM]

Well I don't think it matters that much--if people want to be religious, fine--if they don't, fine with me too--I don't see what's wrong with asking for a little divine guidance or help--and it's rather natural for anyone anywhere to be a bit more concerned about what's happening close to home than far away--

"BTW, I´m pretty sure that if any american was born/raised where I live (Vienna, Austria), he´d love to live here (since it is a better place to live for several reasons ;-) )"

This is off-topic, but I'd like to visit and play some poker in Vienna as soon as they get rid of the smoking in the cardrooms. I've heard the smoke is so thick you can cut it with a knife (almost;-))

Is there any sort of movement in this direction in the Austrian cardrooms or restaurants--just wondering--I love eating out and visiting cultural attractions but to be honest if the smoke is as bad as I've heard I will have to pass for the foreseeable future.

[adios]

Touching on a few points.

"Do I hate nationalism? Well, it depends. I admit that I´m not too much of a patriot. I do favour the national sportsguys on events or my local team, but that´s pretty as much as my patrotism goes. We haven´t done anything to be born or raised in one or another country, so I don´t see too many reasons to be proud of that matter of fact, no matter what citizen someone happens to be. And I admit that I think if everybody thought that way, there wouldn´t have been and still be as many wars as there are."

Fair enough, I respect that viewpoint, and it has merit IMO.

"Well, that´s what you think. But I can assure you that I do put some effort to learn more. Simply for the matter of fact that big parts of the world (and this includes europeans, too) are afraid of the USA. I don´t know whether you have ever been in europe, but all in all I´ve spent about half a year in the USA."

Yes I've been to Europe but certainly I wouldn't claim to be very knowledgable at all about customs, morals, and laws of the countries I visited. Being in the USA for 6 months isn't a guarantee of anything. Your statements about religion in the role of that religion and the USA indicates to me a lack of knowledge.

"Well, I think you are right on this one. But part of the reason why I posted my post was that I was in the USA for vacational reason 2 weeks ago. I´ve seen this propaganda for war in all the TV-stations."

Could you elaborate? Are you saying that the news media is utilizing propoganda (lots of news sources in the USA btw so if you can remember specific ones that would be helpful)? The US government? Both?

"Not that america wants to go to war (although I am shocked about this, but that was not part of my post), "

They want Saddam disarmend the stated positions of Blair, Bush, Annan, Blix, etc. There's more or less unanimous agreement in the UN about that.

"I simply was shocked about the propaganda, which I´ve never seen before. And suddenly, these innocent words "God bless America" became part of the propaganda to me."

It would be wrong to refer to unilateral opinions in the USA. There is no doubt that some in the USA that believe the USA is entitled to devine guidance and intervention. I'm certain it's not the majority opinion though. The USA govt is secular and there is ongoing struggle here, in the USA, to have it remain that way.

[adios]

You may have studied this already but I would doubt it. If you want to learn about the role of religion in the USA government study the controversy (including court decisions handed down) about the Pledge of Allegiance and the use of the word "God" in it. I've got to run.

[Martin Aigner]

Well I´m afraid the problem with smoking won´t be solved pretty soon. You can compare it to the gun-lovers in the USA. We have just as many smoke-lovers here. And unfortunatly I can´t see any light at the end of the tunnel.

But it honestly isn´t that big a problem in the restaurants. I hate smoke, but I´ve never felt any annoyance while dining. Even here people don´t use to smoke while dining, so that´s not that bad. But it sure is a problem while playing poker. A big problem. I usually handle it the way that I try to place myself between 2 nonsmokers. And because of the aircontition some seats are better than others. In tourneys, this doesn´t help of course.

What I´ve recoginized in the last time is that the smokers aren´t that ignorant to nonsmokers anymore. They still smoke, but at least they put the ashrey behind. Although smokers in Las Vegas are still more considerate than the smoking players in europe.

Anyway, I still can strongly recommend you to visit Vienna for a pokertrip for several reasons: Very bad players, good games, wonderful city for sightseeing, and if you win something in tourneys it´s completly taxfree. Ain´t that bad :-)

Regards

Martin Aigner

[MMMMMM]

I played for many years in smoky cardrooms and still wonder how much damage I might have done to my lungs. Since I've had the pleasure of playing in smoke-free cardrooms in more recent years, I can't see going back to the old ways, for me, especially if the smoke is heavy.


Do you expect that the Europeans will ever so slowly come around to the realization that smoking indoors is incredibly harmful to their own health and the health of others?

With all the things that are banned in Europe--as brad pointed out, referring to someone in England as a "homosexual" can get one arrested--can't Europeans see that forcing others to breathe their smoke in places of public accomodation is a great deal worse and more of an assalt than any name-calling could possibly be? Name-calling or even racist epithets may hurt someone's feelings--but smoke hurts others' health.


I'd love to visit Europe but if it's as smoky as some say I'd be rather reluctant. Once you get used to smoke-free environments stepping into smoky rooms is like being hit with a ton of bricks--you can feel it, and you feel it afterwards and the next day too.

Hopefully some day...

[Martin Aigner]

"Yes I've been to Europe but certainly I wouldn't claim to be very knowledgable at all about customs, morals, and laws of the countries I visited. Being in the USA for 6 months isn't a guarantee of anything. Your statements about religion in the role of that religion and the USA indicates to me a lack of knowledge."

You sure are right that 6 months aren´t enought to understand the thinking of a culture. I just wanted to indicate, that I have been to the USA, and that I don´t decline everything in the USA. I´m in no way an "Americanos-hater". What I think I´ve learned about people in the USA is that they are (on average) religious in a higher degree that they are in Austria.

"Could you elaborate? Are you saying that the news media is utilizing propoganda (lots of news sources in the USA btw so if you can remember specific ones that would be helpful)? The US government? Both?"

The media I was talking about was TV. There were several Newsstations (I was in New England and New York), CNN and others more (some channel of NBC and FOX and ABC I think). They had about 24hrs coverage of showdown with Saddam. I didn´t watch too much of it, since the purpose of my trip wasn´t watching TV :-) , still I watched some of the reports. 100% of them were pro war, some of them with ridicullous arguments. The silliest one was from some senator, who was interviewed and said: "We have to go to war against Saddam, since we KNOW that he has weapons of mass destruction. The reason why we know it is that he already told us years before". Wow, what an argument.

Maybe I just watched TV at wrong times, but there really wasn´t 1 single person interviewed on TV while I watched who was against war. For me, this honestly looked like propaganda pro war against Iraq, and therefor pro Bush.

"It would be wrong to refer to unilateral opinions in the USA. There is no doubt that some in the USA that believe the USA is entitled to devine guidance and intervention. I'm certain it's not the majority opinion though. The USA govt is secular and there is ongoing struggle here, in the USA, to have it remain that way."

I´m happy to hear about that. I have read "Body of secrets" by James Bamford, and not later than ever since I
don´t believe too much a government says. (For those who have read it, I´m esp. refering to the chapter handling about cuba in the 60s).

Furthermore I must admit, that I was both surprised and happy, that there were big demonstrations in NY (and the rest of the world) against the possible war. I also heard in TV, that pro/contra war poll about 10 days ago was something like 58/42, which did surprise me a little, because of the media-situation (the situation I felt how it was). I would have expected something like 70/30 pro war (or even more pro war).

"They want Saddam disarmend the stated positions of Blair, Bush, Annan, Blix, etc. There's more or less unanimous agreement in the UN about that. "

No problem with Saddam being disarmed. Probably the whole western world agrees to that.

Regards

Martin Aigner

[Martin Aigner]

"I played for many years in smoky cardrooms and still wonder how much damage I might have done to my lungs. Since I've had the pleasure of playing in smoke-free cardrooms in more recent years, I can't see going back to the old ways, for me, especially if the smoke is heavy"

I can´t argue against that.

"
Do you expect that the Europeans will ever so slowly come around to the realization that smoking indoors is incredibly harmful to their own health and the health of others?"

I honestly don´t know. There are some efforts, but they aren´t that successfull yet. So if you ask me what would happen if a card room in Europe would turn nonsmoking, my answer would be: It would have to close soon after. The majority of the players smoke. But as I have stated, it isn´t that bad as some americans say it is in the normal way of life. Smokers and nonsmokers are seperated in the offices, airports are smokefree (unless on the smoking areas), it´s no problem in restaurants. But it sure is a problem in casinos. The reason probably is easy to explain. People tend to get exited while playing. When people are nervous, they smoke even more. So the problem is way bigger than in normal life.

"With all the things that are banned in Europe--as brad pointed out, referring to someone in England as a "homosexual" can get one arrested--can't Europeans see that forcing others to breathe their smoke in places of public accomodation is a great deal worse and more of an assalt than any name-calling could possibly be? Name-calling or even racist epithets may hurt someone's feelings--but smoke hurts others' health."

I´ve never heard that hmosexuals get arrested in GB,and I honestly don´t believe it. We hear of some strange laws in some parts of the USA too, which I doubt that anyone inforces (I would have to check the internet for it, but there are somr funmails which refer to this laws).

One funny thing is, that americans tend to think that it´s the land of the free. For (middle-) europeans this it just seems the opposite. :-) Probably it´s always the way you look at it.

"I'd love to visit Europe but if it's as smoky as some say I'd be rather reluctant. Once you get used to smoke-free environments stepping into smoky rooms is like being hit with a ton of bricks--you can feel it, and you feel it afterwards and the next day too."

As I´ve stated, it doesn´t seem that extremly bad to me (unless in casinos)

Regards

Martin Aigner

[olemissgolf]

Martin: "We haven´t done anything to be born or raised in one or another country, so I don´t see too many reasons to be proud of that matter of fact, no matter what citizen someone happens to be."

You don't choose your family, but I hope you're proud of them.
------------


Martin: "BTW, I´m pretty sure that if any american was born/raised where I live (Vienna, Austria), he´d love to live here"

As well he should!
-------------------------


Martin: "English isn´t my mother tounge, so I might be completly wrong about this, but these words implicate in a very sophisticated way to me, that the USA is superior to any nation on earth"

To me, that is not what they imply. To me, it means-
"May God be with you, in times of struggle, may He watch over you, and protect you, and keep you humble, and guide you down the proper path." We should all (individually, or nationally) be humble when mentioned in the same sentence as God.
We also say a blessing before meals. "God bless this food to the nurishment of our bodies" and we say, "God bless you (usually shortened to "Bless you") when someone sneezes. These are just things that are said and done, not any implications of superiority.
-------------------



Martin: This phrase is not about anyone seeking help from god for himself, (although in its origing it might have been meant this way). This phrase should mean: "We are better. So God will help us".

I think this is misinterpretation. It has never meant that to me. Closer to the point, "I am asking, so God help us".

----------------
Martin Aigner,
Have a nice day, cheers, take care, and God bless you!

[John Ho]

God loves Americans more. That is why we are the most powerful nation on earth.

And when someone wins a Grammy or Oscar and thanks God - that's the right thing to do because God loves the winner more than the losers.

[IrishHand]

lol - That was outstanding!

[HDPM]

Not all Americans are comfortable with the statement. Sometimes its innocuous, but other times I think it does carry a more negative/sinister undertone. After September 11, I was not happy at all about the use of patriotism and religion together, as when the Congressmen sang God Bless America on the steps of the Capitol. Since we were attacked by irrational religious barbarians bent on destroying the progress of reason, I saw no reason to play into their hands by havig collective religious "counterpoints" to their irrational crap. I am offended at mixing religion and war. I am not saying that war is necessarily wrong, but if we are going to go in and crush a bunch of people we should do it without any reference to religion. Killing terrorists is just fine with me, but we don't need to do it in the name of God IMO. You are correct that Americans can be funnny about religion. In fact, if you poke around the internet you will find some columns criticizing Western Europeans for not being Christian enough thereby becoming excessively anti-American. These colums are not well reasoned, but a lot of people agree with them. Many Americans belive we are a Christian country even though our Constitution designed a completely secular government. But views in this regard are not homogenous at all.

[HDPM]

Yes, but mostly God favors certain athletes. Do you think He bets the games? I love it in interviews where an athlete invokes God as the reason for victory. I always wanted to be a major league pitcher so I could throw at batters who crossed themselves. I guess I'd get suspended, but if I hit one I'd tell him he didn't really believe because God hit him with the ball. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

P.S. Anyone pay attention to Michael Waltrip's statement about the Daytona 500 last week. He won in a rainout and admitted praying for rain. He essentially said, "First I pray for fogiveness, etc...., then my family and loved ones and world peace or whatever,.... then I pray for what I want." It was awful. I'd be waaaaaay too tempted to wreck him this week if I were a NASCAR driver. That would be wrong tho.

[John Cole]

Martin,

I think you missed part of the "how-to-end-a-speech" formula. The correct wording is "God bless you, and God bless the United States of America." I'm not sure who began the tradition (although I suspect it may have been Reagan), but it is now grounds for impeachment to end any formal political speech without these words. (I think it might also be seditious, too, but I'll have to check on this.)

In addition, when a war begins, all American recording artists are now required to work in "God bless the USA" into every song. The rules for this are, thankfully, somewhat relaxed, so as long as "God bless the USA" is audible, even if the recording is played backwards at 78 RPM, the spirit of the law has been upheld.

Quite frankly, I find the endless repetition of these words annoying (as you've probably guessed), but truly religious people should be much more outraged because the words they truly believe in are rapidly becomming emptied of all meaning.

John

[Zeno]

Mr. Aigner, Not everyone in America is in agreement with the "God Bless America" statement. Check this out:

America (http://www.heresyhouse.com/catalog-hh/ts07.html)


-Zeno

[adios]

From the responses in this post Martin I think it's fair to say that the USA doesn't uniformly embrace references to religion in the name of USA actions and government policies. Realize John Ho's response was tongue in cheek which I'm sure you do. Personally I think various government bodies in the USA ought to bend over backwards to avoid the conflicts between "church and state." The applicable principle here is separation of church and state.

A couple of comments on your thoughtful reply. I was reading an article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal on the op-ed page where the columnist was complaining that the coverage of the USA media was too one sided in favor of those protesting war. So I would suppose it depends on your perception. Personally I don't like the media sources you referenced and seldom watch them. There is very, very strong opposition to USA military action in this country. I noticed that Blix has given Saddam a deadline for destroying missles and related hardware of March 1. I also noticed that Saddam wants to negotiate this order by Blix. I more or less predicted that events would go down like this with further inspectors. If Hussein gets away with this I don't think the UN will last very long as any kind of organization to maintain world peace.

[brad]

at least during war i think its passing the buck.

do you think any human being, even a great leader, wants to be responsible for mass murder?

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/frown.gif really, god bless america is a version of kacfc...remember god is always on our side because we are righteous and follow god...got it??? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

[John Ho]

What's the problem? Clearly God loves Michael Waltrip more than the other racers and, in his glory, gave the victory to him.

Perhaps Jeff Gordon's divorce has soured his relationship with God. I can't wait to see who God puts on the pedestal next week!

Maybe if I pray hard enough I will win this years WSOP main event. God, give me pocket aces every hand! And let them hold up you f'ing bastard!

[Martin Aigner]

Very good post, thank you. I can identify myself with this words very good.

Funny thing: I know that you say "bless you" when you sneeze. For me thes was just another phrase (in german we say "gesundheit", which means health). I never thought that bless you is short for god bless you though :-)

Regards

Martin Aigner

[Martin Aigner]

LOL. Finally I understand too. I knew I should start this post. There was something to learn out of it :-)

[Martin Aigner]

As long as you mean "great leader" in the sense of leader of a big, powerful nation I sure have to agree with you.

Regards

Martin Aigner

[brad]

i meant as opposed to a power crazed madman who wouldnt be troubled by mass murder, heh.

btw, god bless you after a sneeze is because (so ive heard) people thought sickness was caused by demons so 'bless you' was to help ward off/drive out the demons.

[Plzr]

When someone says "God bless America" they are just trying to say "God DAMN the rest of the world ", in a polite manner. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[WTF]

"I might be completely wrong about this, but these words implicate in a very sophisticated way to me, that the USA is superior to any nation on earth."

You're not completely wrong, you're right on the money. I think we do tend to see our nation as being superior. We never use the word "superior" though, since it sounds so condescending. We substitute the word "superior" with the word "Greatest," as in "The Greatest Nation on Earth!" It's really cliche to hear that phrase in a speech here in the U.S., whether it's given by a politician or entertainer. In fact, that's Arnold Shwarzenegger's favorite line to use in reference to the United States anytime he speaks (he's from Austria too, right?).

P.S. Your english is perfect.

[nicky g]

"as brad pointed out, referring to someone in England as a "homosexual" can get one arrested"

It really can't. As Brad explained, he was referring to internal police rules; possibly foolish ones, but an employer directing its employees, who work in a very snesitive field, not to use a term is no the same as that term being banned.

Ireland is supposed to be banning smoking in all public places in the near future, so a trip there might be up your street soon. There's ome poker in Dublin, though it's all pot-limit. And Ireland's infinitely superior to Britain in every way /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Though if it's somwhere where few things are banned, perhaps Amsterdam? /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[nicky g]

"mostly God favors certain athletes"

And rappers surely?

There's a great Onion article about God finally returning a bigup to all his homeboys. Don't have a link but you can find it in the archive at www.theonion.com (http://www.theonion.com)

[Mark Heide]

Martin,

The major news organizations in the USA use their outlets to push their opinions on to the majority of the American public. They do this by limiting information from outside of the US, and use religious statements like "God Bless America" to stir up the publics religious emotions, and then tell them that this is the greatest country in the world. As you can see it's all crap. They keep on repeating their points of view over and over again. I guess you could consider it broadcast brainwashing for capitalistic purposes.

Good Luck

Mark

P.S. By the way, most of my family lived in Austria. But, that changed when my mother married a US serviceman in the '50s. But, I still have relatives in Linz.

[brad]

well in my post a guy got arrested and hassled, charges ultimately droppd tho

[nicky g]

That wasn't about his use of "homosexual" though, was it? I agree it was a bizarre arrest.

[brad]

yes they were saying that using the word 'homosexual' in *any* context was a 'hate crime'.

i mean i could be wrong but i dont think so.

also ive heard now illegal in britain to sell things in ounces, pounds, etc, instead of metric.

[nicky g]

"also ive heard now illegal in britain to sell things in ounces, pounds, etc, instead of metric."

pretty much (you can, but you have to have the metric prices displayed more prominently, i believe). i don't see a huge probem with that; there has to be a standard system of measurement, and the imperial one is insane. go metric!

[brad]

true but i mean (ive heard i could be off here) that its a *criminal* offense. thats just crazy. of course in a country where you have no right of self defense what do u expect.

btw, you hear about when blair was at runnymede and declared that the magna charta was no longer in effect?