Unfortunately, One More QQ Thread

[bluewilde]

I hate asking this after so much discussion, but in the previous QQ threads, the debate centers on folding/calling all-in with QQ. On a recent hand (lvl 2, 10 players), there was an EP raiser who made it about 3BB, folded to me, and I pushed. He called with AK (I figured AK or a pair). If I'm pretty sure I have either a better pair or I'm up against AK, is pushing terrible? With the raiser's dead money in the pot, I'm happy if he folds, and I don't want him to see the board (given AK. If he has an underpair, I don't know and I'm still uncomfortable with an A/K high flop). But I haven't seen many people advocating a push here. This is levels 1-3, I think pushing makes more sense in levels 4+, but what about in the above situation: first few levels after a strong raise? Any thoughts?

[Mr_J]

"If I'm pretty sure I have either a better pair or I'm up against AK, is pushing terrible?"

Is being 50/50 at worst and 4:1 terrible??? Realistically you have to include AA and KK as possibilities so occasionally you will be the 4:1 dog.

[Slim Pickens]

Pushing seems fine here. So many people at the 22's will call with dominated hands that it's worth it to push. I think there's (initially) about a 1% chance of the original raiser having AA or KK, 1.3% for AK. Let's throw in down to AT as a donk's all-in call range, plus 77-AA. 5 Ace-somethings, 7PP's (ignoring the other two queens), say 4 other hands 9KQs, who knows what else), so I guess 18.7% of hands. The net is three PP's you dominate 4:1, 50/50 against AK, 75/25 against AQ, AJ, and AT. OK, so I'm saying you're a 72% favorite over their calling range, so even if they call this every single time, you came out way ahead.

As for smooth calling to extract value postflop, I don't think 3BB is enough. In my hand, the initial raise was to 100 (7BB), which should be enough to drive out garbage. 3BB is too small, and I think you have to re-raise this to at least 250, so it's borderline all-in-or-nothing anyway.

SlimP

[Fatdogs12]

I don't agree personally, I mean why get involved so early for all your chips? Why are you racing now? I would call the raise or raise more, I woul dmake it at least about 75 or 80 chips on lvl one as people will a lot of times call 3 or 4 times the BB if it's only 45 chips.

Considering the level you are plkaying at you can say that most likely you are beat but it's not worth a race here. See the flop, if it's safe then see how safe and decide if you want to push or not.

Personally though I don't like taking the chance to get busted out early. If you just posted blinds and folded till level 4 and then started pushing at the right time you would make the money enough to be very profitable.

As Raptor once told me, "Whats a flop?"

[liucipher]

Were you in the blinds or behind the original raiser?

If behind the raiser, call or reraise. I lean towards a large reraise. Instacall if he comes over the top. I'd like more than 135 chips for QQ if possible. If the flop is scary, you can fold and still come back from ~500 in chips. If it's safe, just push and take down the pot.

I favor pre-flop pushing if you're uncomfortable with post-flop play (especially if you're in the blinds and out of position - I hate this scenario). I also like pushing if the buyin is lower because a lot of $11 players simply will not fold TT preflop. Going all-in doesn't give them the opportunity to miss the flop and fold.

As for your "I know he has AK or TT+ and is going to call" question, that's an easy push. Push twice on Sundays. Remember, even against AK you're not a true coinflip. I think the odds are like 56% in your favor.

[bluewilde]

Yeah, can't believe I didn't include position: SB. I remember thinking, "well, this is the only time I get to act after him...so...i'll take away that advantage right now." I knew I had to reraise. I felt like any OOP continuation bet on a K/A-high flop (obligatory for my PF aggression), would have me ending up all in against a better hand. Hence my "I'm not solid post-flop, so let's eliminate that stage of play" move.