Short stacked on the bubble

[11t]

Is folding here even an option?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t3335)
SB (t4580)
Hero (t1485)
UTG (t4100)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t800</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t400.

Flop: (t1275) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t660 (All-In)</font>

[durron597]

You don't have enough chips for a stop and go (your opponent has pot odds to call with AK assuming his outs are clean). Though a stop and go is better than pushing preflop I guess on the off chance he folds.

I think that you CAN fold here, if you had 200 chips less you definitely can't, but it probably isn't a good idea. I think your line is best.

[11t]

Yah, it was an obvious stop n go but every chance he has to fold the better

[schwza]

i would fold pre-flop without hesitating. you will have FE if it folds to your SB next hand, and if not, at least you won't be playing against a pfr'er. and you never know - somebody might make a bad fold in the BB, or maybe AA v KK will happen next hand and you squeak into 3rd.

[11t]

What is the line where you dont fold here?

[schwza]

QJ/A8.

[11t]

I meant in the form of BB's

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
you will have FE if it folds to your SB next hand,

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, the BB will be calling you with top 85% at least given your stack size (there are antes).

[ QUOTE ]
and if not, at least you won't be playing against a pfr'er.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pfr'er should raise with any two if you fold Q8o here.

[ QUOTE ]
and you never know - somebody might make a bad fold in the BB, or maybe AA v KK will happen next hand and you squeak into 3rd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it really worth it to sacrifice the overlay here to hope for something like that? Man I need to get SnGPT.

[11t]

SnG PT says it is -EV until I have ~1000(2.5xBB) then it is BARELY +EV

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
SnG PT says it is -EV until I have ~1000(2.5xBB) then it is BARELY +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

What range are you giving the big stack?

[11t]

I gave him a loose range, his min-bet seemed to indicate he wanted to go HU against my SS but would be willing to fold to a push from one of the other larger stacks.

EDIT: Of course the looser his range is the more +EV the q8 becomes.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I gave him a loose range, his min-bet seemed to indicate he wanted to go HU against my SS but would be willing to fold to a push from one of the other larger stacks.

EDIT: Of course the looser his range is the more +EV the q8 becomes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you actually post the range you gave? With the ranges I'm thinking of I find it very hard to believe that Q8 is -EV. The fact that he's willing to fold from a push from one of the big stacks means that you can probably remove the best hands from his range too.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I gave him a loose range, his min-bet seemed to indicate he wanted to go HU against my SS but would be willing to fold to a push from one of the other larger stacks.

EDIT: Of course the looser his range is the more +EV the q8 becomes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you actually post the range you gave? With the ranges I'm thinking of I find it very hard to believe that Q8 is -EV. The fact that he's willing to fold from a push from one of the big stacks means that you can probably remove the best hands from his range too.

[/ QUOTE ]

or it's a minraise trying to induce a push... hard to know which.

[schwza]

grrr... forgot about antes.

now there's 1.2k in dead money for a 1035 call (if it were a push; maybe stop n go is marginally better). yeah, i'd stop n go here but this would be just about the limit of hands i'd play.