how much are the pros really worth?

[Eegs]

I know we see guys like Johnny Chan, Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson etc. on TV with large piles of cash in front of them but does anybody know exactly how successful these TV star players actually are in terms of net worth?
Maybe somebody has a link or something...this has probably been covered before.

[InAPipeDream]

DOn't know about their worth, but cardplayer.com has tourney results and money won for all players (Ivey for instance: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tournaments/view/name/Phil_Ivey). Obvioulsy it isn't telling you their ring game stats or overall worth, but I hear Ivey, Brunson, etc., are pretty successful players at the Bellagio.

[PokerBob]

Read "The Professor, The Banker and The Suicide King". These guys have 500K sitting in boxes at casinos.

[Eegs]

I read that book and thats actually what got me thinking about this question. The author talks about whats in Ted Forrest's safe-depoist box but is that everything he has etc.?

[BB_Specials]

I highly doubt that is all that he has. Besides, doesn't net worth include all tangible assets as well?

Including million dollar homes and like 6 cars for many pros.

[Jailhouse]

From what I understand, the money in Ted's box is strictly his poker bankroll. However, I guarantee that he has a lot of money tied up in investments, his house, loans etc. Also, players like Forrest have almost infinite borrowing power.

[meow_meow]

Don't forget that Phil Hellmuth is looking to sell around $400 million worth of merchandise over the next few years. Probably something like $300M will go straight into Phil's pocket.

Making a couple million a year playing poker is OK, but it doesn't even buy a jet.

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that Phil Hellmuth is looking to sell around $400 million worth of merchandise over the next few years. Probably something like $300M will go straight into Phil's pocket.

Making a couple million a year playing poker is OK, but it doesn't even buy a jet.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he sells $400M worth of schwag (retail cost), he will get nowhere even close to $300m. that's laughable.

the truth is that nobody knows how much any of these guys have, except themselves. speculation is just that. glad to see the WPT forum is back to where is was a week ago!

[detroitplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that Phil Hellmuth is looking to sell around $400 million worth of merchandise over the next few years. Probably something like $300M will go straight into Phil's pocket.

Making a couple million a year playing poker is OK, but it doesn't even buy a jet.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he sells $400M worth of schwag (retail cost), he will get nowhere even close to $300m. that's laughable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. He'd be lucky to get 20% on wholesale, let alone retail for merchandise. Still, $40m-$80m is nothing to sneeze at... IF he sells $400m to begin with.

[meow_meow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that Phil Hellmuth is looking to sell around $400 million worth of merchandise over the next few years. Probably something like $300M will go straight into Phil's pocket.

Making a couple million a year playing poker is OK, but it doesn't even buy a jet.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he sells $400M worth of schwag (retail cost), he will get nowhere even close to $300m. that's laughable.

the truth is that nobody knows how much any of these guys have, except themselves. speculation is just that. glad to see the WPT forum is back to where is was a week ago!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are picking on the wrong figure.

[Eegs]

so this brings up another good point...Do most of the poker pros derive their income from endorsements, books, and other more stable sources of income or from actual poker profits? Isn't that the intrigue of the lifestyle ayway? Isnt that why we watch these people on TV? To see someone make it as a cardplayer not some second rate celebrity?

[rheaume]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that Phil Hellmuth is looking to sell around $400 million worth of merchandise over the next few years. Probably something like $300M will go straight into Phil's pocket.

Making a couple million a year playing poker is OK, but it doesn't even buy a jet.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol ... i can't wait til bill fillmaff gets ahold of this new "material." his last video was terrible.

remember, you can't look into someone's soul without proper UV protection.

[jojobinks]

[ QUOTE ]
I read that book and thats actually what got me thinking about this question. The author talks about whats in Ted Forrest's safe-depoist box but is that everything he has etc.?

[/ QUOTE ]

the book answers that question. read more slowly next time.

[Miles Ahead]

Good question. Some of them (like Ivey and Reese) derive most of their money from cash games. Others (like Hellmuth) make most of their money in tournaments and/or book royalties and merchandise deals.

The best cash game players will almost always make more (in terms of poker winnings) than the tournament specialists.

As far as how much the big cash players can make, I have heard the $20 million/year figure tossed around as an estimate of Ivey's annual winnings.

Is that possible? Sure. Ivey is a regular in the biggest games. Doyle's "Big Game" is (I think) a daily $4,000/$8,000 game that runs for 15 hours or so a day. Ivey is known to play extraordinarily long sessions (20 hours or more). Assuming he averages at least 1 BB per hour (which I think is reasonable), and assuming he is playing in games of that size 80 hours a week (which is also reasonable), then he is making $33,280,000 annually. That amount may be too high, but it shows that $20,000,000 is definitely in the ballpark of possible annual incomes for a top cash game player like him.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that possible? Sure. Ivey is a regular in the biggest games. Doyle's "Big Game" is (I think) a daily $4,000/$8,000 game that runs for 15 hours or so a day. Ivey is known to play extraordinarily long sessions (20 hours or more). Assuming he averages at least 1 BB per hour (which I think is reasonable), and assuming he is playing in games of that size 80 hours a week (which is also reasonable), then he is making $33,280,000 annually. That amount may be too high, but it shows that $20,000,000 is definitely in the ballpark of possible annual incomes for a top cash game player like him.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Its not possible.

Guys like Sklansky have said that the best players in that game make 1/2 of a SB.... or $1k an hour.

[transmitt]

engage sarcasm detector.......................................... .................................................. ..............................now!!!!!!!!!!

[DeuceKicker]

It's impossible (and pointless to speculate, IMO) to accurately guess how much money they make. According to recent research, they're all worth about 45 Million

http://www.soundmedicine.iu.edu/archive/2003/quiz/humanWorth.html

[Miles Ahead]

Yeah, OK. So, with your Sklansky number, he's averaging at least $4 million a year -- probably more.

Then, of course there may be windfalls. You have Andy Beal supposedly losing $10 million in single sessions and over $20 million to Todd Brunson alone. So, it is certainly possible that some of these guys could earn in excess of $20 million in some years. They'll of course likely have their down years too.

As for what net worth that translates into (the OP's question), who knows?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, OK. So, with your Sklansky number, he's averaging at least $4 million a year -- probably more.

Then, of course there may be windfalls. You have Andy Beal supposedly losing $10 million in single sessions and over $20 million to Todd Brunson alone. So, it is certainly possible that some of these guys could earn in excess of $20 million in some years. They'll of course likely have their down years too.

[/ QUOTE ]

When Andy Beal lost all that money they weren't playing $4k/8k

Please just stop posting in this thread. It is making my brain hurt.

[Thrahl]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is that possible? Sure. Ivey is a regular in the biggest games. Doyle's "Big Game" is (I think) a daily $4,000/$8,000 game that runs for 15 hours or so a day. Ivey is known to play extraordinarily long sessions (20 hours or more). Assuming he averages at least 1 BB per hour (which I think is reasonable), and assuming he is playing in games of that size 80 hours a week (which is also reasonable), then he is making $33,280,000 annually. That amount may be too high, but it shows that $20,000,000 is definitely in the ballpark of possible annual incomes for a top cash game player like him.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Its not possible.

Guys like Sklansky have said that the best players in that game make 1/2 of a SB.... or $1k an hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Greenstien says otherwise. And since he actually plays in said game, I'd tend to believe him.

[EricOF]

Hellmuth is worth at least eleventy billion.