Another PP Question

[bluewilde]

All right, preflop raises the general question: "if I'm playing for set value, does that mean I fold even to a minraise?" If I assume both limpers call (dangerous assumption) I'm still only getting 6.5 to 1 /images/graemlins/frown.gif. Should I have folded?

How does it look postflop? Do I need to lead for more? Half of me is happy I tripped, but I want to shut the action down given 2 suits. When this guy pushes I'm thinking higher PP, AJ/KJ or a flush draw (ding ding ding). Call is mandatory right?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

MP3 (t365)
CO (t950)
Button (t830)
SB (t533)
Hero (t1595)
UTG (t1527)
UTG+1 (t790)
MP1 (t1255)
MP2 (t155)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t30, MP1 calls t30, MP3 folds.

Flop: (t225) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, MP1 goes all in (1195) Button folds, Hero calls t1045.

Turn: (t1420) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t1420) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1420

Edit: think the flop is correct now

[45suited]

The converter screwed up the hand, but:

1) Pre-flop is an easy call

2) On the flop, I'm assuming he pushed. Don't fear set over set. If he's on a flush draw, great. Instantly call this push.

[RedRum]

[ QUOTE ]
The converter screwed up the hand, but:

1) Pre-flop is an easy call

2) On the flop, I'm assuming he pushed. Don't fear set over set. If he's on a flush draw, great. Instantly call this push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what he said. This is ideal for you.

Edit: I may make it a pot-sized bet on the flop, rather than the 2/3ish you raised.

Drink More,
RedRum

[bluewilde]

All right, cause I've been folding a bunch of PPs to any resistance (even minraises) at levels 1,2 and 3 (by 4 I usually need to push a few). So which pairs can stand up to how much of the raise. I looked at this situation in terms of pot odds. I'm 7.5 to 1 to flop a set, if both limpers call I'm getting 6.5 to 1. But you say easy call, so this can't be a good approach.

[45suited]

I'd call the mini-raise with any PP in the spot you were in. Don't forget about the huge implied odds when you flop your set.

The only thing that would make me even consider not calling is if I had reason to believe that MP3 (short stack) was going to push once it got back to him. He's probably not going to do that and there were other deep stacks in the hand, so go ahead and call the mini-raise.

Don't get me wrong: In this spot, I would never consider folding, but you do have to consider limpers already in the hand before any raise and whether or not it is likely that it will be re-raised behind you if you call.

[bluewilde]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call the mini-raise with any PP in the spot you were in.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean if I've already limped, am BB or SB, I assume. What about cold calling, do I cold call 2BB with any PP?

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
All right, preflop raises the general question: "if I'm playing for set value, does that mean I fold even to a minraise?" If I assume both limpers call (dangerous assumption) I'm still only getting 6.5 to 1 /images/graemlins/frown.gif. Should I have folded?

[/ QUOTE ]

The odds of setting are are 7.5:1 and you're "only" getting 6.5:1 (wouldn't it be 7.5:1 anyway if both limpers called)? The implied odds are through the roof. Getting 6.5:1 is like limping with 5 limpers ahead of you. Surely you don't think that's not a good situation to try to flop a set?

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call the mini-raise with any PP in the spot you were in. Don't forget about the huge implied odds when you flop your set.



[/ QUOTE ]

[Jman28]

You play PPs for implied odds, not immidiate odds.

A good general rule of thumb is to play when you expect to pay less than 1/15th of your stack (or the next biggest stack) to see the flop.

[bluewilde]

[ QUOTE ]
You play PPs for implied odds, not immidiate odds.

A good general rule of thumb is to play when you expect to pay less than 1/15th of your stack (or the next biggest stack) to see the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting! But I don't get why...could you explain a little, especially about "the next-biggest stack."

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
All right, cause I've been folding a bunch of PPs to any resistance (even minraises) at levels 1,2 and 3 (by 4 I usually need to push a few). So which pairs can stand up to how much of the raise. I looked at this situation in terms of pot odds. I'm 7.5 to 1 to flop a set, if both limpers call I'm getting 6.5 to 1. But you say easy call, so this can't be a good approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a tournament. The implied odds are huuuge if you hit your set. For example, look at the hand you posted. You put in 30 pre-flop and then doubled up post-flop.

[durron597]

You played this hand perfectly.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play PPs for implied odds, not immidiate odds.

A good general rule of thumb is to play when you expect to pay less than 1/15th of your stack (or the next biggest stack) to see the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting! But I don't get why...could you explain a little, especially about "the next-biggest stack."

[/ QUOTE ]

1/15th as a rule of thumb because that's the odds of hitting trips on the flop. If you are the chip leader, your chips are worth "less" than the others because of the blinds.

[wildzer0]

I'll just parrot what someone else told me on here a while back that was pretty good advice. If it's a min-raise to you and the raise is less than 7% of your stack and you think you'll get pretty good action if you flop your set, you should call.

You should be delighted at this flop and happily call. If you're paying off a bigger set, then so be it.

[gildwulf]

You got all your money in on the flop with a set. I don't see what the problem is here.

[bluewilde]

No problem as to the result; I was thrilled. I just wondered if I got there in the first place by being too loose, and it brought me to ask some general questions as to how much PF resistance PPs can withstand.

[bluewilde]

Excellent summary, this is pretty much my new take on it. Thanks everyone!

[gildwulf]

At T1 blinds I call raise with PP up to 3XBB.

At T2 blinds I usually call up to 3X (depending on reads, position, how many in pot, etc.) so long as my stack is relatively intact. If UTG raises 3X and it's folded to Hero on button this is an obvious fold. But if MP raises 3X and there are two callers and you are the button this is an instacall. Also, if I just lost a medium size pot (raised AK preflop and put in a continuation bet that failed so my stack is in the 600s) this is a fold. It just depends on the situation...

At T3+ blinds it depends on my stack size and how much FE I can afford to lose.