Psychology/Mindset

[citanul]

Entering a game, I'm sure many people have different mindsets they like to be in to feel like they are ready to play at the top of their game. Part of that mindset is how you are going to feel about your opponents right from the start of the game. Many of those who have played sports in their lives work from a standpoint that to beat your opponents, you have to Hate Them. Or at least Hate Them while you are involved with your competition with them.

Bigwig says he hates his opponents.

Do you?

Psychologically how do you prep for playing SNGs? What is your emotional frame towards your opponents?

citanul

[Freudian]

My biggest problem when it comes to this is that I get content while running good. So If I am up 7-8 buy-ins in a handful of SnGs, I often call it a day/move down in limit to make sure it will be a good day/play Omaha for the rest of the day.

This behaviour of course leads to me not moving up even if I probably could and should. I have a gazillion buyins for the 33s already.

As for in-game psyche, I am very calm and relaxed by nature so I don't worry about at all. Everyone tilts in some way of course even if they think they don't, but I would guess that I tilt much less than the average player.

[wildzer0]

If I go in angry, I'm going to play badly. The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state where I know I have an edge on the competition. If I can mentally prepare myself for the bad beats and all that, I'm much less likely to tilt. It's weird, I try not to even think of my opponents as real people. They're factors in the game I can't control, but I can learn to understand and exploit those factors in my favor. If I start to make it personal, I start to have a problem.

[kamrann]

I guess I tend to kick off each set with the mindset of, "Okay, I'm gonna have all you [censored]!". So yeah, I suppose I hate them in a superficial sense. I don't think it's a good thing though really, because emotion of any kind is liable to affect play in a negative way I would say.

Recently I had the idea of trying to approach it as if there weren't actually real people at the other end of the phone line, making these seemingly random decisions to call allin on the bubble with JT or whatever. Imagining instead that I was just playing a computer game where that sort of thing happened and I just had to keep plugging away with the right strategy. So far though I've found it quite difficult to forget that it was someones decision to do something insanely dumb which just cost me another $100. I'm still searching for a way to fully detach myself from everything but making the right decisions.

[pergesu]

My approach stems from something I learned while making a living at live ring games for about 6 months.

I thought it was the funniest thing in the world that all the people I played with worked hard all week, then dumped their money off to me, a stupid 17 year-old (at the time) who didn't work or go to school. I can be obnoxious, to say the least, and used to love needling them, trying to see if I could put them on tilt.

There was a guy that played a couple times a week, I really respected him. He took me aside one day, to tell me yet another "You remind me of myself as a kid" story, but I actually listened to him. Told me that I shouldn't feel superior to my opponents at all, that I should recognize everyone in the game has different motivations for playing, and the most common one is pure entertainment. He said my profits would shoot through the roof if I were more pleasant in the game, and hell, I might even make a few friends to boot.

So I experimented for about a week doing this. Simple things like never laughing at a bad play, or even check-raising someone because it harbors resentment. And ust all-around being a more polite, pleasant person. Turns out I did make more. People were far more willing to give me action, cause they weren't always trying to nail me anymore. If I would break someone in a hand, they were a lot more likely to buy back in instead of getting pissed off and leaving. I don't have any numbers to back it up, but I'm positive that it all changed as a result of my attitude towards my opponents.

That thinking has carried over into the rest of my life, really. I was a varsity runner/wrestler/soccer player back in HS, and I used to always think whoever I played against was a chump. I'm still competitive in every aspect of my life, but I just have a different outlook now I guess, I give people the respect they deserve.

Not sure how much it applies to online SNGs, but that's my initial mentality regarding my opponents. That's one aspect of live play that I love - figuring out what everyone's motivation is, and how to play to it. Gigabet discusses this a bit in his "Almost there with success and failure" post, and I made an ill-received post on deserving and entitlement, which I think is a leak many players have.

[wulfheir]

My wife tells me I drop a lot of f-bombs when I play, regardless of how well/poorly I'm running. I usually don't remember them.

As for my opponents, I only hate the table coaches, and the racists.

The only sport I've played competitively is curling, which isn't really condusive to hating your opponents. I just concentrate on my game and I really only try to pick up on their tendencies.

[Lady Dont Tekno]

The mental state I want to be in is that of pure concentration with an ambiguous emotional connection to my opponents. I don't want to feel anything about them because that might affect my play. GoT said that he strives to be a "mindless clicking machine" completely unfazed by anything that happens at the table.

You shouldn't be happy when you see AA and you shouldn't be sad when you see 27o. Don't get upset when your Aces get cracked and don't feel satisfied when your favorites hold up. You should understand and accept how the game of poker and variance works.

So the best way I can describe it I guess is a complete trust in my game and my reads with as little emotional attachment as possible.

Maybe one day I'll actually get there. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

LDT

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state

[/ QUOTE ]
Crass as it may be, I think the best way to start a session is right after getting head. I bet we could prove that ROI increases a couple points (and it would undoubtedly be a fun study).

[HesseJam]

I see them as real people and try to figure out their playing skills and their motivation. I try hard not to see them as dumbo cash machines.

SnGs are very easy in that respect because the play is more abstract and you cannot directly fight your opponent.

I moved back to .5/1 ring games this month to clear a ton of bonuses and to get a feel at what state the ole beginners game is. I got way more involved there, was very aggressive and had an assassin's mind set. I beat the game steadily for 5BB over 6000 hands and it was the first time that I felt superiority over 80-90% of my opponents. That felt good.

I also made it a sport to open new 1/2 Crypto tables (It's like a reverse tourny, you go from heads up to full ring), sitting there by myself, like a spider, waiting for my victims to kill them off heads up.

[the shadow]

nh

I like CrisBrown's (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=566461&page=&view=&sb =5&o=&vc=1) point of view:

[ QUOTE ]
I respect my opponents. I may not always understand why they do the things they do, but I assume they have a reason for it. So after the hand, or after the tourney when I review my hand replays, I take a moment to ask myself: in what circumstances would I have made the same play? In some cases, what I discover is that he made a smart play that I didn't understand. In some cases, I see a trap that I might well have walked into myself. Regardless, I try to always assume that he had a reason for what he did.


. . . So I don't look at my opponents and think "what an idiot." I think ... was *I* the idiot?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Shadow

[gildwulf]

I try and avoid thinking on a psychological level online because then I think about how I'm taking someone's money and it makes me sad.

That being said, there are a couple psychological 'tells' I look for...in my notes whenever I see someone constantly commenting on other people's play and going 'lolololol' and being a table captain, or showing their cards on unnecessary bluffs(i.e. in 10/15 blinds), I just write in my notes 'WPT'. This person clearly has watched too much WPT and plays like a donk; he/she knows just enough about poker to play very poorly (ie over-aggressively) and criticizes weak-passive play.

As for my own mindset, I try and stay detached emotionally to avoid tilt.

I know this goes against the 'looking inside people's souls' approach to poker but I guess at the levels I play it's not really necessary...observing betting patterns and playing styles is more than enough to tell me the range of cards my opponents have.

[Quercus]

Assuming i don't recognize them, I don't really feel anything about my opponents.

I don't hate them, love them, disrespect them, respect them or anything else. I barely even realize that there are people behind the avatars (if I could see the avatars, I turn them off.)

[ChoicestHops]

I try to have a state of mind exactly the opposite of this. Hate and anger are correlated with me and can put me on tilt very easy.

I try to be peaceful and concentrate on the best action at the most appropiate time.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
I try to have a state of mind exactly the opposite of this. Hate and anger are correlated with me and can put me on tilt very easy.

I try to be peaceful and concentrate on the best action at the most appropiate time.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Fear leads to anger...Anger leads to hate...hate leads to...suffering..."

Yoda probably played a mean 10/20 6-max

[45suited]

I actually try to get into a totally calm state and remind myself over and over to just be patient. This coincides with playing tight early and not taking unnecessary chances in the first couple levels. It also keeps me from getting too antsy if I get relatively short stacked but not desperate.

I just remind myself that eventually there will be a spot for me to make my move and / or my opponents will inevitably make their mistakes if I give them a chance.

[SuitedSixes]

Interesting post.

When I play on the Internet, I incorrectly assume that everyone knows what they are doing and give them WAAYYY too much credit. I don't know why, and this seems to be the opposite of what others think.

Then, when I play live I am amazed at what moroans these people are.

I don't know why, in my mind, the internet player is much more sophisticated than the B&M player, they are all the same monkey. I guess it has to do with being able to put a face to the player, and not having 27-72 of them to track.

I am also aware of my own mindset. I have stretches where the only drama is if I will finish 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Then I will have other stretches where I just hope I can last until the bubble and maybe get lucky (reminds me of high school). Since I have been playing professionally the latter times have manifested themselves as an honest fear of playing, and I hate it.

Before each session I ask that I win money from people who can afford it, and lose to those who need it.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

When I play on the Internet, I incorrectly assume that everyone knows what they are doing and give them WAAYYY too much credit. I don't know why, and this seems to be the opposite of what others think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always gotten the impression that this is quite common among 2+2. The most common example is the high respect accorded to UTG limps from any player. While a solid player who understands position should be accorded respect, if you assume (correctly, I believe) that your average low-level SNG player hasn't that much of an inkling about position it doesn't really mean much.

[morgan180]

I HAVE to play several SNGs at once - I don't know what it is, something about playing just 1 and then not cashing just puts me on tilt - like why did I just waste x minutes for nothing. By playing a bunch at once it allows me to enjoy the game, keeps the action going and keeps me engaged. Then when I don't cash in one or two of them I'm over it and keep a nice even keel.

My wife says I'm much nicer that way.

I don't hate anyone at the tables except the following: people who are table captains, people who are jerks, people who complain about the river, people who have stupid screen names like killer, anything with the number 69 in it, etc. I don't do anything to try to single anyone out because i believe that is the easiest way to loose all your chips to them. I just take pleasure in watching them bust.

The good doctor Alan wrote an article for card player a while back about the same thing - people that totally HATE their opponents and want to destroy them often do better, but for me when I want to get anyone I just try to hard.

As for suited's post - I agree, the first time I stepped in to a B&M to play 2/4 limit I was scared to death that I would be up against a bunch of TAGs that would take all my money by aggressive betting, etc. Instead they were a bunch of morans. The internet does make everyone look like pros until they call me with JACK HIGH!!

[pokerlaw]

Good post - I don't *hate* my opponents; just like I don't hate them when I play sports against them.

In cards and sports (any any other game), I enter the game w/ the confidence that I am good and that I will exploit every advantage that I can see using the strengths that I have (and the weaknesses that i spot in my opponents).

I only would use hate if I lose respect for an opponent (for example, if he types racial remarks in the chat box or if he starts calling way too many bogus fouls in a pickup game, etc).

[jadducci]

I try to maintain a level head while playing and that is not usually too hard, however there are points when you lose 4 or 5 coin flips in a row and thats when I start to get aggrevated. Whenever I sense that I am not in the right state of mind, I try to take a break for an hour or two and let myself forget about the previous session.

I can't see how hating your opponents would lead to better overall performance. Personally, I would think it would cloud judgement, however I can see how hating a player/table can also improve your focus and that in it self could lead ot better play.

[gildwulf]

I think hating your opponents is part of the whole football coach ass-slapping thing...testosterone hoo-ahh, that kinda stuff. It works for some people I guess.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
however I can see how hating a player/table can also improve your focus and that in it self could lead ot better play.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. Anger increases alertness.

[ChoicestHops]

[ QUOTE ]
"Fear leads to anger...Anger leads to hate...hate leads to...suffering..."


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I actually was going to put this down, but I decided not to at the last moment.

I can get pissed very easily, especially against a bad suckout. When this happens I usually will take a break for about 15 minutes after my current tables are finished and smoke a cigarette. Try to calm down.

If I get really pissed and start tilting, I'll take a break completely. No point in playing if you dont have the correct mindset.

[ZeroPointMachine]

I always used the anger/hate mentality playing sports. It seemed to help my focus and reation time. It also provides much needed adrenaline when your body has had it. But it was more of a head game to psych myself up than a true disdain of my opponenets.

These days I only play sports where you can compete while holding a beer. Anger + Beer = Badges + Guns. So, I keep things on a more even keel.

I try to be as even and mello as possible while playing poker. Otherwise, my aggressive tendancies spill into my play.

[11t]

I clear my mind of all negative thoughts and bend my entire being upon victory.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
I clear my mind of all negative thoughts and bend my entire being upon victory.

[/ QUOTE ]

What poker book did you learn that from?

[morgan180]

first you must realize that there is no victory

[gildwulf]

Did everyone here learn psychology from The Matrix? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[DangerGoodson]

Right before the tourney starts I think about sex. Then I get distracted and look at porn while the tourney is going which harms my reads and results.

[morgan180]

that's funny -- i actually prefer to be distracted at the lower levels because i don't feel the need to get involved in pots "just because i'm bored."

[morgan180]

although my wife doesn't let me look at porn. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
Right before the tourney starts I think about sex. Then I get distracted and look at porn while the tourney is going which harms my reads and results.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH

[valenzuela]

My mood varies a lot, sometimes I sit down very tired and play and other times I sit down just focusing on winning and playing my A-game and destroying my oponents.
I dont hate my oponents, in fact I like them. Oh and when Im playing I always have the feeling that Im the best player at the table.

[Newt_Buggs]

I just play....I don't really think about anything, I just fire up the tables and try to enjoy myself.

I definitly don't hate my competition though

[ QUOTE ]

Before each session I ask that I win money from people who can afford it, and lose to those who need it.

[/ QUOTE ]
interesting

[fnord_too]

I don't hate my opponents. (Really, my main mindset when I am starting is all about getting 8 tables up, what a pain in the ass that can be.)

While playing, all I am rather clinical. If I notice a weakness, I mentally (or textually) note it and if an opportunity to exploit it comes up, I take it. I don't really have time to hate, even if I was inclined. My eyes are constantly flitting between tables. In the early stages, it's not that bad, but if I am deep in several STTs at once, it takes all my attention to assess my situation in each.

I don't think hating is very productive, either. If I were to hate an opponent, I would probably overvalue busting the dirty SOB trying to take food out of my children's mouths, and that can lead to more suboptimal play than my current level. In sports, especially sports like boxing, I can see where you may need to hate your opponent for the durration of the contest, but in purely intellectual games like poker or chess, I think any emotion can cloud your reason. I have no problem with taking my (non-hated) opponents money, just like I don't have any problem (other than a lack of skill!) in beating someone at chess.

[Jay36489]

I just try and be in a good mood when I play. Sometimes I end up hating them though /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ewing55]

[ QUOTE ]
I clear my mind of all negative thoughts and bend my entire being upon victory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Hellmouth???

I try to just get calm and confident. I am currently 4-tabling so I keep pretty busy, and I usually just laugh at suckouts. With more tables you have more action and more suckouts and it is easier to see the chips coming in as well as going out.

Side Note: I usually don't chat but do watch the chat. We were down to 5 players and I pushed. Villian commented "Oh no, here we go again. I hate those players that rarely play a hand and then all of a sudden start pushing....... Usually they are pretty good players." I busted out laughing on that one. Next hand he, with t1000 chips and 100/200 blinds, open raised with 400 and then folded to an all-in from the short stack. DON'T THESE PEOPLE EVER LEARN?

----------------Jeff

[AliasMrJones]

I wouldn't say I hate my opponents. I am naturally competitive by nature, but also friendly so I like a talkative, fun game. But, while hopefully projecting a fun, friendly atmosphere I also have the extreme desire to beat every opponent I face.

[EricW]

I like the posts above by pergeus and guildwulf.

I really try not to make it personal and I've tried to be friendly. If there's a bad beat that occurs, I never say anything. There's no point in getting all worked up over nothing. I find that getting pissed off takes away from your game.

I made a post a few days ago in the psychology forum about how to keep a level head and not having this urge to jump up in limits after a few bad losses to make up the money. I find that now even I take bad beats and losses, I'm really trying to keep a level head. What keeps me going is just making the right play. That's all I have to worry about. Although perhaps I'm calmer right now because I've been running pretty well, but i have taken loads of bad beats and I'm responding to them much better.

I too find it funny when there are the "poker teachers" on the table berating players and "teaching." There are some real jackasses out there who talk trash for no reason or do the "THANKS FOR THE CHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!" when they beat you with a bad beat. Or there's the guys who try to tear you apart for going all in to steal blinds when the blinds are sky high. I try to ignore these fools. But it's sure as hell funny.

[jeffraider]

I don't really feel one way or another towards my opponents. I just try to put myself in a clear state of mind and focus on making good decisions.

[bluewilde]

Yeah, I think making it personal/getting angry hurt my game (though I suppose if you can "hate" an opponent with out being angry that'd be a good source of focus).

Really I'm responding to Eric's post on table coaches. While these players are irritating, they are abosolutely hilarious. For instance, today it's folded to me on the bubbble with J7s in the SB. I'm short-stacked (800ish) and I push into BB (about 1200 chips). He calls with KT and wins. This is the guy who pushed 27 and showed it, then pushed AA, got called and before the action finished said, "HAHA you're dead I've got rockets." The following insued,

BB: Bad move man, you don't go all in with J7s.
Me: [nothing]
BB: Stupid fish
Me: What like the Zodiac? I'm a tiger, but my sign is aries.
BB: I have to call with any two there, do you know that? Do you know how to play poker?
Me: I like waffles
BB: WTF!!! do you hear what i'm saying fish? You suck
Me: Awww, you're sad cause you don't like waffles?
BB: see ya loser, thanks for the chips

I always enjoy these conversations

(Thanks to whoever I borrowed waffles from--somebody in the "what would you say to hellmuth" thread...think they said tacos...I liked it)

[Bigwig]

A lot of you taking the 'hate them' comment to levels I didn't intend. It's not 'disrepsect' or 'anger.' I'm not staring at the screen in a frothing rage. It's a mindset that I want to beat everybody's brains in, and I want to find a way to bust everyone. If an opponent wins a pot from me by outplaying me or by getting lucky, I remember the information better, because now I REALLY hate them. I'm going to use that info later to hopefully bust them.

This is all within the confines of competition, of course. In real life, I don't hate anybody. Not even George Bush.

[curtains]

I just play normally, and try to have as little emotion while I play as possible.

[Bigwig]

One other thing. The 'hate' drives me to improve so I can crush everyone even more. I want to prove something. What? I've no idea. But I'm this way in golf, too. I will say that I don't care when I lose a Nassau to my mother. But when playing my dad or good friends in a match, I really really want to win. So I concentrate more than a typical player. I get more out of my ability than they do. I feel that this mindset helps me in poker as well. I'm desperately thinking--how can I win this tournament? How can I get in the money? I have to get in the money to prove to this donk that despite him sucking out with J5 against my AA early in the tournament, I still beat him.

I dunno. It works for me. Y'all are just too nice. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BTW, at a live table, you don't see this hate from me. I'm very friendly and talkative. That's all part of the psychology. Online, I've turned chat off. I got sick of being called an idiot, and don't trust myself not to yell at the luckboxes.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state

[/ QUOTE ]
Crass as it may be, I think the best way to start a session is right after getting head. I bet we could prove that ROI increases a couple points (and it would undoubtedly be a fun study).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so incredibly true.

-Phoenix

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Entering a game, I'm sure many people have different mindsets they like to be in to feel like they are ready to play at the top of their game. Part of that mindset is how you are going to feel about your opponents right from the start of the game. Many of those who have played sports in their lives work from a standpoint that to beat your opponents, you have to Hate Them. Or at least Hate Them while you are involved with your competition with them.

Bigwig says he hates his opponents.

Do you?

Psychologically how do you prep for playing SNGs? What is your emotional frame towards your opponents?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. Personally, I would say that this is really a horrible mindset to be in when you play poker.

In order to play poker well, you need to understand your opponents. Empathy is much more helpful than hatred.

I think if your goal in poker is to "beat" your opponents, you will make errors out of frustration; whereas if your goal is to play optimally, you will not be as prone to those errors.

The analogy I think of is a layperson trying to hammer a nail during a home improvement project. Things get difficult, and they hit their thumb with the hammer. They get pissed off at the whole operation and start yelling obscenities, calling inanimate objects names. A skilled and experienced carpenter, however, simply says "ouch" and continues working.

Most people who I watch playing poker remind me of the guy that calls the two-by-four names.

Irieguy

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state

[/ QUOTE ]
Crass as it may be, I think the best way to start a session is right after getting head. I bet we could prove that ROI increases a couple points (and it would undoubtedly be a fun study).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so incredibly true.

-Phoenix

[/ QUOTE ]

Starting a poker session right after getting head is a good way to get dumped.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Entering a game, I'm sure many people have different mindsets they like to be in to feel like they are ready to play at the top of their game. Part of that mindset is how you are going to feel about your opponents right from the start of the game. Many of those who have played sports in their lives work from a standpoint that to beat your opponents, you have to Hate Them. Or at least Hate Them while you are involved with your competition with them.

Bigwig says he hates his opponents.

Do you?

Psychologically how do you prep for playing SNGs? What is your emotional frame towards your opponents?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. Personally, I would say that this is really a horrible mindset to be in when you play poker.

In order to play poker well, you need to understand your opponents. Empathy is much more helpful than hatred.

I think if your goal in poker is to "beat" your opponents, you will make errors out of frustration; whereas if your goal is to play optimally, you will not be as prone to those errors.

The analogy I think of is a layperson trying to hammer a nail during a home improvement project. Things get difficult, and they hit their thumb with the hammer. They get pissed off at the whole operation and start yelling obscenities, calling inanimate objects names. A skilled and experienced carpenter, however, simply says "ouch" and continues working.

Most people who I watch playing poker remind me of the guy that calls the two-by-four names.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah.

Again, you're confusing a desire to crush your opponents with anger. I use it as a motivational factor, not an emotional one. It motivates, for example, to try and get into their head and read their moves, put them on accurate hand ranges, etc. because I desperately want to beat them.

I'm not saying this could or should work for everyone. It just does for me.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state

[/ QUOTE ]
Crass as it may be, I think the best way to start a session is right after getting head. I bet we could prove that ROI increases a couple points (and it would undoubtedly be a fun study).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so incredibly true.

-Phoenix

[/ QUOTE ]

Starting a poker session right after getting head is a good way to get dumped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you should at least let her wash her face and talk for five minutes first.

[11t]

Sun Tzu, the art of war

[11t]

Porn is definitely -EV

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
Sun Tzu, the art of war

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Sun Tzu would have at least stayed for pillow talk...

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state

[/ QUOTE ]
Crass as it may be, I think the best way to start a session is right after getting head. I bet we could prove that ROI increases a couple points (and it would undoubtedly be a fun study).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so incredibly true.

-Phoenix

[/ QUOTE ]

Starting a poker session right after getting head is a good way to get dumped.

[/ QUOTE ]
I prefer to have a couple of "EV boosters" than just one full-time girlfriend.

A big part of ones mindstate is how well their body is doing.
I try to keep my body running right by eating a good (but not heavy) meal before playing, then make sure i take 10 deep breaths (anthony robbins technique) which seems to help clearing my head as well as relaxing me. I make sure I've been up atleast an hour and have had some coffee or shower, something to wake my ass up. If at all possible, i wil try to excercise (just a 20 minute walk or push ups) also seems to help.

Mindstate wise, i remind myself that i am one of the better players at the table but that I can also make mistakes, so remind myself not to make plays i know better than.. I try my hardest to just play optimum poker and not let the bad beats affect me...

Oh Yeah,, 30% of the time I'll fire up a dutch of some hydro, doesnt seem to hurt.

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
Online, I've turned chat off. I got sick of being called an idiot, and don't trust myself not to yell at the luckboxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that still sometimes gets to me (being called an idiot). As long as I win it doesn't matter but when they beat my all-ins it is getting the worst of me.

[lacky]

I dont understand this whole line of thought. Poker is a game, just like monopoly when I was a kid. I was good at monopoly. I always tried to beat my friends at monopoly, and I usually did, but I never hated them. I'm good at poker. I always try to beat the other players at the table, and I usually do, but I never hate them. I get to make a good living because people that aren't really interested in studying poker still think it's fun. Why would I hate them, or even dislike them. They are the people that provide my income, I like most of them and apprecait them.

The only exception is the angery kids (now adults) that would take everything too serious, throw cards, knock games over when losing and in general be a pain in the ass and call it competative spirit. They are the same people who now as adults go around telling my friends that provide me a living how stupid they are, how bad the play was, how bad their poker prof stats are, etc, etc.

Grow up, it's what I always wanted to say when we were kids, it's what I tell them now at the tables.

If you want to play solid tilt free poker what it takes is a calm relaxed mind and additude, not intense feelings.

Steve

[curtains]

Yeah honestly I think hating your opponents at poker would make you play worse somehow. Can't imagine how it could possibly help you.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah honestly I think hating your opponents at poker would make you play worse somehow. Can't imagine how it could possibly help you.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all dandy for you guys.

It helps me.

But again, it appears that everyone is retardedly translating my comments into 'actual' hatred of my opponents. For the last f***** time, I don't really hate them. It's a competitive attitude.

And it doesn't mean that I'd throw cards, swear at the table, and kick the host's f***** cat.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

But again, it appears that everyone is retardedly translating my comments into 'actual' hatred of my opponents. For the last f***** time, I don't really hate them. It's a competitive attitude.

And it doesn't mean that I'd throw cards, swear at the table, and kick the host's f***** cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

For someone as clearly tiltproof as you... I'm sure it's the optimal approach.

Irieguy

[gildwulf]

Kicking cats is definitely +EV.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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The best state of mind I can get in to play is just a confident, relaxed state

[/ QUOTE ]
Crass as it may be, I think the best way to start a session is right after getting head. I bet we could prove that ROI increases a couple points (and it would undoubtedly be a fun study).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so incredibly true.

-Phoenix

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sry for the triple quote, but i believe this is 100% true after i won my first step from 11$ i proceded to go up about 8k in the next week or so.
Also i try to go in every SNG/Tournament with calm and confidence. but also i like to play with a chip on my shoulder, i know it sounds funny but for some reason i think it helps me read opponents hands better.

[Degen]

Indifference

I do poorly in live games (or at least am not on top of my game) when i get involved talking to them and whatnot. Live i bump the iPod full blast and never look anybody in the eye and i can play my best.

Online i'm rarely in the chat box and usually have that off. They are not people to me, just stacks of chips. Its almost like playing Super Mario Brothers.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

[ QUOTE ]
My approach stems from something I learned while making a living at live ring games for about 6 months.

I thought it was the funniest thing in the world that all the people I played with worked hard all week, then dumped their money off to me, a stupid 17 year-old (at the time) who didn't work or go to school. I can be obnoxious, to say the least, and used to love needling them, trying to see if I could put them on tilt.

There was a guy that played a couple times a week, I really respected him. He took me aside one day, to tell me yet another "You remind me of myself as a kid" story, but I actually listened to him. Told me that I shouldn't feel superior to my opponents at all, that I should recognize everyone in the game has different motivations for playing, and the most common one is pure entertainment. He said my profits would shoot through the roof if I were more pleasant in the game, and hell, I might even make a few friends to boot.

So I experimented for about a week doing this. Simple things like never laughing at a bad play, or even check-raising someone because it harbors resentment. And ust all-around being a more polite, pleasant person. Turns out I did make more. People were far more willing to give me action, cause they weren't always trying to nail me anymore. If I would break someone in a hand, they were a lot more likely to buy back in instead of getting pissed off and leaving. I don't have any numbers to back it up, but I'm positive that it all changed as a result of my attitude towards my opponents.

That thinking has carried over into the rest of my life, really. I was a varsity runner/wrestler/soccer player back in HS, and I used to always think whoever I played against was a chump. I'm still competitive in every aspect of my life, but I just have a different outlook now I guess, I give people the respect they deserve.

Not sure how much it applies to online SNGs, but that's my initial mentality regarding my opponents. That's one aspect of live play that I love - figuring out what everyone's motivation is, and how to play to it. Gigabet discusses this a bit in his "Almost there with success and failure" post, and I made an ill-received post on deserving and entitlement, which I think is a leak many players have.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an awesome post.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But again, it appears that everyone is retardedly translating my comments into 'actual' hatred of my opponents. For the last f***** time, I don't really hate them. It's a competitive attitude.

And it doesn't mean that I'd throw cards, swear at the table, and kick the host's f***** cat.

[/ QUOTE ]

For someone as clearly tiltproof as you... I'm sure it's the optimal approach.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily get upset, and not go on tilt. I grumble as much as the next player about my opponent hitting a two outer, but I don't let it affect my play. That's a question of discipline.

[Jay36489]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I experimented for about a week doing this. Simple things like never laughing at a bad play, or even check-raising someone because it harbors resentment. And ust all-around being a more polite, pleasant person.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an awesome post.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is except for the part about not check raising. You give up too much EV, and if people are going to get pissed about a CR, then they are being overly sensitive, and will probably never be pleased.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I experimented for about a week doing this. Simple things like never laughing at a bad play, or even check-raising someone because it harbors resentment. And ust all-around being a more polite, pleasant person.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an awesome post.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is except for the part about not check raising. You give up too much EV, and if people are going to get pissed about a CR, then they are being overly sensitive, and will probably never be pleased.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't mean never check-raise. There are obvious spots, like where the player to the left of you raised preflop and you hit a set, that failing to check-raise is giving up way too much.

But if I'm heads up with someone who I KNOW will get upset if I check-raise him/her, I wouldn't do it. I'm talking low limit games, 3/6 and 5/10, where people are just screwing around. If I check-raise them and they decide they won't give me any action for the rest of the session, how much EV am I giving up?

The point is that losing money is hard enough. I found that I made more money by playing solid poker and softening the emotional/mental blow than by playing 100% Sklansky poker.