Standard?

[MrFeelNothin]

Im pretty sure this is completely standard so dont go thinking ive got something interesting. Just a checkup....

5/106max, UTG is loose and bad, nothing really sticks out yet. read is unimportant anyways i think.


Preflop: UTG calls, MP raises, SB calls, I call in BB with 87o, UTG calls...

Flop: A85rainbow, checked around

Turn: A still rainbow, I bet, UTG thinks and calls, rest fold.

River: 3 I check, UTG bets, I turbo muck.


yes or no?

[NLSoldier]

I think the river check fold is pretty awful. Either bet/fold or check/call. The guy has done nothing but check and call until the river and all the sudden you feel the need to turbo muck /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MrFeelNothin]

What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.


He is not loose enough to be playing 67 UTG, no other draws out there.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]

What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised.

Seriously though, how about 22,44,A3s, KQ that he thinks is the best hand?

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised.

Seriously though, how about 22,44,A3s, KQ that he thinks is the best hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm....i think the type of player that would call the turn with 22 or 44 would check thru on the river. A3s??? ill ignore that one...KQ? i dunno, he was 40/17 i think he would have raised any big Ks.

doesnt my play look exactly like i tried to CR the pfr? now im frustratedly betting out on the turn, certainly not bluffing into 4 players.

he is sitting with the A and he doesnt want to drive away customers drawing dead, so he flat calls.

i hate putting people on such narrow hand ranges, but in this situation i really cant see putting in any bets on the river.

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be surprised.

Seriously though, how about 22,44,A3s, KQ that he thinks is the best hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm....i think the type of player that would call the turn with 22 or 44 would check thru on the river. A3s??? ill ignore that one...KQ? i dunno, he was 40/17 i think he would have raised any big Ks.

doesnt my play look exactly like i tried to CR the pfr? now im frustratedly betting out on the turn, certainly not bluffing into 4 players.

he is sitting with the A and he doesnt want to drive away customers drawing dead, so he flat calls.

i hate putting people on such narrow hand ranges, but in this situation i really cant see putting in any bets on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I count right after a long night you are getting 7 to 1 on the river after UTG bets. Yes the scenario you describe is quite a likely scenario but it will be otherwise often enough to make a check/fold wrong. I'm with NLS on either bet/folding or check/calling depending on a more specific read. Against an unknown probably check/call and ensure a showdown.

[Alobar]

I fold PF

I'm with everyone else, I don't like check/fold river. bet/call or check/call. Your read is he is "loose and bad", you will almost certainely win this often enough to show a profit.

[PokerBob]

no

[Noodles]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bob your avatar has me in stitches,
Brilliant!

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cant beleive you are convinced he has an A, because he called a turn bet,
put yourself in his shoes,
flop is checked around,pfr hasnt bet, then the BB bets out when an A hits turn again,would you fold evey hand that hadn't an ace in it?

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cant beleive you are convinced he has an A, because he called a turn bet,
put yourself in his shoes,
flop is checked around,pfr hasnt bet, then the BB bets out when an A hits turn again,would you fold evey hand that hadn't an ace in it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I still cant think of a hand he could call the turn with other than an A or K8.

[RunDownHouse]

I think that's a pretty bad fold. I like check/call, because he might check through some better hands, like T8 or something.

He could peel a ton of hands on the turn, and just because he bets the river after you show weakness doesn't mean that he was calling with a better hand.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hand could he have called me with on the turn other than an A.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cant beleive you are convinced he has an A, because he called a turn bet,
put yourself in his shoes,
flop is checked around,pfr hasnt bet, then the BB bets out when an A hits turn again,would you fold evey hand that hadn't an ace in it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I still cant think of a hand he could call the turn with other than an A or K8.

[/ QUOTE ]


Every time you win a pot, take a look at the hand history and take note of the [censored] garbage poeple will call down with. You are giving your oppnenet WAAAAAY to much credit.

[MrFeelNothin]

my WtSD is higher than most on this forum(35.5) and my FtRB is similar Im pretty sure(39). Im aware of people calling down with ahigh and crap but i am apparently blind to it in this particular situation.

[irishpint]

in this instance I dont mind a fold, however i think there are some things worth noting. first off, i dont buy into the 'UTG thinks and calls'. To me, that doesn't mean anything. Is he thinking or pissing? thinking or playing 3 other tables? just because he waits doesn't always mean he's thinking i dont think.

I think it's OK to fold here, however, because we have such a weak middle pair. Would UTG have limped a higher PP (99 or TT?). I really dont think he's betting a 5 or a 3 on the end here, and if he has an 8 it's most likely with a better kicker than our 7.

This leaves me with one possible situation. UTG has some sort of unsuited broadway mess...QT, K9, etc. and got a free turn card. another ace hit so he figured the chances of you having an ace you checked around on the flop isn't great and figures to have 6 outs against you (if he was a thinking player we might see a bluff raise here). when you check the river it's you saying you dont have an Ace and he's going to bluff you off the pot, since

he didnt hit anything and can only beat a worse UI hand
can easily fold to a river c/r

FWIW, i bet you take down this pot with a river bet. C'mon, would an Ace really check the flop (ok... missed c/r maybe) and also check the turn when he hits trips (and only call?). Is this a standard why of luring you in? I feel like he's not getting the most $ if he is playing an ace this way.

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
my WtSD is higher than most on this forum(35.5) and my FtRB is similar Im pretty sure(39). Im aware of people calling down with ahigh and crap but i am apparently blind to it in this particular situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

in 'this particular situation' Ahigh would be worth trips.

[Subfallen]

If this line is wrong, it's barely wrong. Loose and bad players don't like to risk being check-raised on a scary board, and sure as heck don't value-bet 66 or 77 here. So it's either a bluff or an A. Unless you have an extremely weak table image (i.e. continually betting and check-folding), this is not a bluff 11% of the time.