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Revid
07-17-2005, 03:24 PM
<font color="green"> This article is from the Sacramento Bee written by Marcos Breton. I copied it here so you dont have to subscribe but if you want the link to the actual article here it is:
Marcos Breton: If poker is sport, it's time to fold (http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13249638p-14092123c.html)

My reaction to it is that he is very uninformed about the subject matter. Which kinda makes him a bad journalist. He says he does not want poker on his sports page and one of those reasons seems to be because poker players are immoral. If you ask me NBA and MLB players are also not the best role models.
</font>

Poker is not a sport, but it's all over the sports pages. It's all over ESPN. It's all over Bravo and Fox and even the pages of my own paper.

All of a sudden, at all hours of the day and night, we're seeing corpulent, pasty guys with bad skin and bad attitudes hunched around sleazy tables like derby-wearing mutts in a dime-store painting.

Who are these people? Better yet, who cares?

Why are they on my TV screen? Why are they in my paper? What does it say when poker ratings on ESPN are almost as high at 3 a.m. as they are during waking hours?

That's right: Poker is watched by the thousands across America in the dead of night.

Some might call that a fetish. And if not that, what does one call playing poker for hours on a computer?

A new opiate for the masses? A prelude to downloading porn?

Obviously, it's called a sign of the times.

"I think (poker) has all the elements of what it takes to be a big deal," said Keri Potts, an ESPN spokesperson.

Potts and ESPN would know. Poker now draws more than a million households per viewing, a staggering achievement of programming muscle considering it is a sedentary game played at a table like Parcheesi.

This revolution apparently started two years ago, when the World Series of Poker on ESPN tapped America's vein of addiction, elevating anonymous schmoes like Chris Moneymaker (yes, his real name) into supposed cult figures.

Moneymaker, you see, turned a $40 tournament entry fee into a $2.5 million payday when he prevailed over more than 800 players.

This is, of course, the heartbeat fueling games of chance: the Hail Mary hope of the big score for the dog-faced Everyman.

It's the bedrock upon which Las Vegas - and ESPN poker ratings - are built.

Steve Lipscomb, creator of the World Poker Tour, described the bonanza this way to The Bee last year:

"Even if you have the desire and resources, you can't go play in any other major sports like the NFL or the NBA. ... But with poker, you can. It's a televised sport that anybody at home, on any given day, could have a chance to play for a major title with the top players."

Fine. You want to play online poker until your corneas bleed, go ahead. You want to gamble away your mortgage, that's up to you.

There is no problem as long as you call it what it is - a hobby, a way to blow off steam, the vice of a free society.

But that's not how poker is being sold now.

It's being jammed down our throats by the pimps of popular culture, crafted as thrilling competition when it's really not.

Go to a tournament and you'll see.

"It's like watching paint dry," Lipscomb told The Bee last year. "I'd just as soon stand in the corner and stare at the wall."

But it works on TV because ESPN filmmakers skillfully manipulate hours of nothing - madly cutting and pasting - to produce "great television."

In truth, it's just as phony as the "And1 Mixtape" basketball tour, which is a collection of bricks and bumbling passes distilled to heavily edited dunks and "street-ball attitude" for television.

It's not real, it's Memorex.

Such fakery was bad enough when ESPN cameras turned publicity-hungry bowlers into trash talking bozos, but now we're supposed to be impressed by a poker-playing doofus with wraparound sunglasses?

Seriously. Modern-day court jesters are being elevated alongside the Miguel Tejadas of the world by the likes of the New York Times, which on Friday described poker players this way:

"Among the game's breakout stars are Phil "The Poker Brat" Hellmuth. ... Men "The Master" Nguyen, who often sips beer at the table in a pose of nonchalance; and Chris "Jesus" Ferguson, whose long locks and dark beard help him resemble the popular depiction of Christ."

Boy, is that this week's sign of the coming of the apocalypse or what?

So let's review: Televised poker stinks because a game requiring no athletic ability, tied to gambling and played by chain-smoking, booze-swilling louts is being sold as culturally important.

It stinks because it's a game manipulated by television to seem more interesting than it is.

It stinks because it appeals to our worst instincts.

"In this day and age, if you put a television camera in a 7-Eleven, clerks would be giving each other high-fives after they sold a Slurpee," said Norman Chad, an ESPN poker "commentator" in the Times.

OK. This is America, people watch poker; the rest of us always can change the channel. No problem.

But keep poker off my sports page. And while I'm happy for the Elk Grove guy who took home seven figures in Vegas on Saturday, don't tell me his win is important.

It is to him and his family, but to a shrinking world that still values real athletic talent and genuine real athletic entertainment, it's not.

KaneKungFu123
07-17-2005, 03:27 PM
what a [censored]

Online247
07-17-2005, 03:34 PM
Marcos Breton is an idiot.

Jordan Olsommer
07-17-2005, 03:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
elevating anonymous schmoes like Chris Moneymaker (yes, his real name)

[/ QUOTE ]

All ye know, all ye need to know.

DcifrThs
07-17-2005, 04:17 PM
i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking.

poker is not a sport.

it shouldn't be on tv.

it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages.

the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables.

-Barron

Revid
07-17-2005, 05:14 PM
A debate wether poker should be a sport or not is fine. That is not what this article is about, he is attacking poker. I think I am going to send him a link to The Charlie Tuttle Story (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/3710354)

Sacramento Kevin
07-17-2005, 05:57 PM
I read this in the morning's paper... just shook my head. This writer is regularly off the mark and complaining about something. Not very well respected, so this wasn't that surprising from him.

Brain
07-17-2005, 06:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
A prelude to downloading porn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we have the poker boom to blame for this one. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mike Gallo
07-17-2005, 06:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking.

poker is not a sport.

it shouldn't be on tv.

it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages.

the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Autocratic
07-17-2005, 08:06 PM
I don't think poker is a sport, but come on, this guy clearly just dislikes it and is venting. The fact is, kids are gathering in living rooms and kitchens all across the country every night to play because they saw it on TV. You can't argue with it, you can just bitch about it.

threeonefour
07-17-2005, 09:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]

i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking.

poker is not a sport.

it shouldn't be on tv.

it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages.

the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

amen

thatpfunk
07-17-2005, 10:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking.

poker is not a sport.

it shouldn't be on tv.

it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages.

the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you say it shouldn't be on tv? It gets ratings and people enjoy watching it. You could say you don't think it should be on Sports channels, but to say it shouldn't be on tv in general makes no sense.

07-18-2005, 12:05 AM
yeahletswatchthebrutesthrowpigskintoeachotherinste adortwobraindeadloserspuncheachothersenseless
orgrownmenspendalldayhittingatinyballintoaholewhil eeveryoneoohandaah
thatsrealsportandithasalotofsocialvalue

nate_king1
07-18-2005, 01:09 AM
I disagree that poker should be a sport. IMO. Its very entertaining, probably more so than tennis or other lame televised sports.

PokerGoblin
07-18-2005, 11:14 AM
Rick Reilly wrote a similar article about 9 months ago. This guy has nothing to say.

But, saying poker shouldn't be on TV is like saying people shouldn't trade houses with their neighbors and redecorate a room for TV, or a bunch of strangers with obviously conflicting personalities shouldn't be banished to exotic islands and be made do perform asenine tasks for TV, or people should be made to eat worms while hanging upside down by the bottom of a rope ladder of a helicopter hovering over a pasture filled with fresh llama feces...

The debate as to whether it's a sport is rather redundant. What difference does it really make? Is billiards a sport? how about darts? How about cheerleading? What determines what is considered a sport?

I know this post is as pointless as the article, but things like that strike a nerve when all the dude is doing is bitching about something that is as trivial as his little column itself.

OK my blood pressure is way to high for this early in the morning.

Seeking Valium

PG

beernutz
07-18-2005, 12:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking.

poker is not a sport.

it shouldn't be on tv.

it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages.

the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you say it shouldn't be on tv? It gets ratings and people enjoy watching it. You could say you don't think it should be on Sports channels, but to say it shouldn't be on tv in general makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said. I don't get the argument that poker should not be on TV at all. Compared to the vast sea of bs currently flooding the airwaves poker is not even close to the most objectionable.

What exactly constitutes a 'sport' today anyway? It seems as if the only requirement is that it is any activity that involves hand-eye coordination and has a winner.

Turning Stone Pro
07-18-2005, 12:29 PM
I agree with Barron. Poker is a dangerous game, and it's participation by America's youth (&lt;21) should not be encouraged by television, fancy ads, glorification, etc.

I would not want my 16 or 17 year old kid playing online poker, getting hooked on it, and playing against the likes of the top 15-20 players on this site. The kid could literally go into a huge amount of debt and put him/her (and, certainly, his parents) in a very difficult financial position, that may take years to rectify.

Poker is a game for consenting, mature adults, who are old enough to make informed decisions about the potential risks and rewards, and who are old enough and experienced enough to understand the consequences of their actions.

TSP

bobbyi
07-18-2005, 01:03 PM
16 year olds shouldn't be boxing or racing cars either. Does that mean that those competitions shouldn't be shown on tv?

Turning Stone Pro
07-18-2005, 01:05 PM
To be honest, I could live without both.

TSP

PairTheBoard
07-18-2005, 01:11 PM
"It's not real, it's Memorex."

What a hack.

PairTheBoard

chopstick
07-18-2005, 01:30 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/baseball/oak_athletics/v-print/story/13012842p-13859289c.html

About the writer:
Reach Marcos Breton at (916) 321-1096 or mbreton@sacbee.com.




Smithers, release the hounds.

07-18-2005, 02:31 PM
The guy is right on the mark. This game usually involves a bunch of arrogant, overweight slobs talking trash. It involves no athletic ability whatsoever.

MaxPower
07-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Other than the depiction of poker players as chain smoking, booze swilling louts, I think this guy makes some good points.

A lot of the poker shows are extremely boring and even the good ones are manipulated to look more exciting than they are.

I think the popularity of poker just shows what sheep most people are. Before the popularity of the WPT people who knew I played poker thought it was a weird thing to do. Now they are all talking about how great it is. TV tells them what they should think and what they should like.

OK, cynical rant over.

colgin
07-18-2005, 03:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with some of the sentiments but surely his tone is too overblown.

[ QUOTE ]
poker is not a sport.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. There should be no debate about this.

[ QUOTE ]
it shouldn't be on tv.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have like 200 channels. If a few of them have poker on from time to time who cares. Sometimes I watch and sometimes I don't.

[ QUOTE ]
it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. It is not a sport. It pissed me off when the New York Times put McManus' new poker column (which I don't object to per se) in the Sports section. They don't put bridge and chess in sports. Then again, they now put video game reviews (you read correctly . . . video game reviews) next to that same McManus poker column.

[ QUOTE ]
the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables.


[/ QUOTE ]

God bless.

Sandstone
07-18-2005, 10:43 PM
I don't know who gets to define what a "sport" is, or why anyone would be bothered that this meaningless identification is given to one game or another.

If there's a demand for the content, who cares whether it goes on the Sports page or some other page (Where the hell do they even bury the Chess info?)

Alex/Mugaaz
07-18-2005, 10:51 PM
Poker is a game. There are plenty of games on TV. We live in a free country - anything that gets ratings will be on TV. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I hate golf, when I see it on TV I change the channel. Not that difficult.

Revid
07-19-2005, 01:59 AM
sport (spôrt, sprt)
n.

1.
1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.
4.
1. Mockery; jest: He made sport of his own looks.
2. An object of mockery, jest, or play: treated our interests as sport.
3. A joking mood or attitude: She made the remark in sport.
5.
1. One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation: a poor sport.
2. Informal. One who accepts rules or difficult situations well.
3. Informal. A pleasant companion: was a real sport during the trip.
6. Informal.
1. A person who lives a jolly, extravagant life.
2. A gambler at sporting events.
7. Biology. An organism that shows a marked change from the normal type or parent stock, typically as a result of mutation.
8. Maine. See summercater. See Regional Note at summercater.
9. Obsolete. Amorous dalliance; lovemaking.


<font color="green"> I am not saying that I think poker is a sport but I do think there could be two classifications of sport.

One where there is physical exertion involved. Another would be something that is a pastime or game that people compete in. You cant just call it a hobby, people dont compete in building model trains (or do they?).

Poker, Chess, Darts, Bowling, Spelling Bees, Billiards; a new category of sport. This way people who were in football in high school dont get pissed when someone calls poker a sport.

Just a thought. </font>

TheIrishThug
07-19-2005, 10:33 AM
poker is not a sport. neither is cheerleading, figure skating, gymnastics, or skateboarding. but all these r on tv and i have no problem with that. for me a sport is a competition, that requires physical skill, and is not decide based on someone's opinion of how they performed.

if there was a place to put poker and other non-sports that fit, that would be fine. but for now the best place is the sports page.

as for having poker being sold thru the media, yes it has it's dangers but a lot of ppl still think its only played in smoking backrooms. if i am not mistaken, there was a rule that got u kicked out of the wsop if u smoked at the table.

mackthefork
07-19-2005, 11:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Modern-day court jesters are being elevated alongside the Miguel Tejadas of the world

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure this is bad form here, but does anyone outside America know who the [censored] this guy is? I have no idea. Also ESPN cutting mostly cuts out the hands where something of interest happens, thus making the WPT shows basically unwatchable to anyone who can play a little.

Mack (Little Englander) /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

mackthefork
07-19-2005, 11:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i agree with this guy 100% and im not joking. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

poker is not a sport. bing /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

it shouldn't be on tv. (i refer to your last point)

it should DEFINATELY not be on the sports pages. bing /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

the only thing i like about the current situation is that it drives more horrible playing people to the tables. (this is why it should be on TV) /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Regards Mack

mackthefork
07-19-2005, 11:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
yeahletswatchthebrutesthrowpigskintoeachotherinste adortwobraindeadloserspuncheachothersenseless
orgrownmenspendalldayhittingatinyballintoaholewhil eeveryoneoohandaah
thatsrealsportandithasalotofsocialvalue

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet in Norway that really would be one word. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mack

hemstock
07-19-2005, 06:14 PM
He's not wrong.
But would chess be so popular if it was televised?
No because is a game of ability and not luck. You know that the best player will NOT lose.

People like these kind of games. 20 Years ago you could win a washing machine in a tv game show like spin the wheel or something and people actually watched it. Today it's poker. It's definetly not a sport but for the time being it's sure entertaining.

Peter666
07-19-2005, 06:53 PM
How about putting your kid in a bubble and than locking him in a cage.

Peter666
07-19-2005, 06:58 PM
Sorry, that post is for the Stone Cold Pro guy.

As for the stupid article, poker is an intellectual game and well worth watching on TV. It makes the brain think.

Now fat guys sitting at home watching a bunch of overpriced athletes is pathetic. They should be playing the sports themselves.

Peter666
07-19-2005, 07:00 PM
I seriously think your children are going to grow up to be gay.

CORed
07-20-2005, 01:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
They don't put bridge and chess in sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some newspapers do put the bridge and chess columns in the sports section. If poker doesn't belong in the sports section, what part of the paper would your suggest putting it in?

colgin
07-20-2005, 04:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They don't put bridge and chess in sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some newspapers do put the bridge and chess columns in the sports section. If poker doesn't belong in the sports section, what part of the paper would your suggest putting it in?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what sections the paper has and what event they are covering. With something like the ME of the WSOP it could be a story somehwere in the National section of the paper. Personally, if a paper has an arts and leisure section (as the New York Times does), I would put a regular colun there (which is where I believe they put chess and bridge, although they may stuff those in Metro)as tomany people poker is a leisure activity (myself included).

DrSavage
07-20-2005, 04:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They don't put bridge and chess in sports.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say it's more reality TV than a sport.
Some newspapers do put the bridge and chess columns in the sports section. If poker doesn't belong in the sports section, what part of the paper would your suggest putting it in?

[/ QUOTE ]

07-22-2005, 03:20 AM
That journalist is a loser and doesn't know what he's talking about...