STOP FOLDING QQ PREFLOP

[gildwulf]

That is all.

That goes for AA and KK too.

[The Don]

This is the only time I do the old "poker prophecy" read. If I raise with QQ and get reraised in L1 or L2 (of a $22) I always check the player out on poker prophecy. Any player with good numbers (~42-45% PP ITM or 37-40% actual ITM) will always have aces or kings.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
That is all.

That goes for AA and KK too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have folded QQ plenty pf.

[gildwulf]

Fine...qualification is stop folding preflop at 10+1, 20+2 and 30+3 which is where almost all the questions on this come from anyways.

[curtains]

I have folded QQ in the $33s too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gildwulf]

Jeez, you guys are impossible:P

[Jay36489]

I won't fold it in the 55s unless its to a 2+2er, and I don't consider it a leak...

[Slim Pickens]

In a 22... bad fold?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1570)
BB (t1975)
UTG (t805)
Hero (t775)
MP2 (t650)
CO (t325)
Button (t1900)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t100</font>, Hero calls t100, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t290, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises all-in t805</font>, Hero folds, MP2 calls, SB calls t505.

Flop: (t1317.50) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Turn: A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Results:
SB has 6d Ad (one pair, aces).
UTG has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
MP2 has 9s 9c (one pair, nines).
Outcome: SB wins.

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]
In a 22... bad fold?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1570)
BB (t1975)
UTG (t805)
Hero (t775)
MP2 (t650)
CO (t325)
Button (t1900)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t100</font>, Hero calls t100, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t290, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises all-in t805</font>, Hero folds, MP2 calls, SB calls t505.

Flop: (t1317.50) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Turn: A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Results:
SB has 6d Ad (one pair, aces).
UTG has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
MP2 has 9s 9c (one pair, nines).
Outcome: SB wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold that everytime

[durron597]

Slim-

Why are you not raising in your first action? Make it t250. Then when 3 people go allin behind you, you know for sure the fold is correct.

I still wouldn't fold KK ever though.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
Slim-

Why are you not raising in your first action? Make it t250. Then when 3 people go allin behind you, you know for sure the fold is correct.

I still wouldn't fold KK ever though.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly. but yeah, the fold is fine.

[gildwulf]

fine....new thread name...stop folding QQ unless it's reasonable:P

Sigh

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
Slim-

Why are you not raising in your first action? Make it t250. Then when 3 people go allin behind you, you know for sure the fold is correct.

I still wouldn't fold KK ever though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't what about this hand needs to be defined. I just don't think I buy that much information for 150 extra chips that I don't already get from the preflop action plus acting after the original raiser postflop. That could be stupid, but that's what I was thinking at the time.

SlimP

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't think I buy that much information for 150 extra chips

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not buying information, you're value betting. And you are charging big aces and kings to see the flop.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just don't think I buy that much information for 150 extra chips

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not buying information, you're value betting. And you are charging big aces and kings to see the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it too weak-tight to think that 250 chips is too large a fraction of my stack to bet, even though I know it is +cEV to do so?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Slim-

Why are you not raising in your first action? Make it t250. Then when 3 people go allin behind you, you know for sure the fold is correct.

I still wouldn't fold KK ever though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Screw making it 250, just move allin. You can't raise to 250 just so in case 3 pepole move allin after you, you know you are beaten, this will happen too rarely to worry about. The correct play is to put all your chips in the middle right away, as any smaller raise commits you, and 250 isnt enough to make your opponent fold..

[Slim Pickens]

Raising all-in would have been a better play than calling, but I like calling rather than raising less than all-in.

EDIT: So yeah, I shouldn't have folded preflop. Point taken I guess.

[curtains]

I think calling is terrible! You are calling off 1/8th of your stack when the blinds are 10-15 ....bad bad bad poiker. Raising less than allin is okay, but not to 250....however I still think its much better than flat calling in EP with QQ. I think calling is devoid of any advantages (I really think its truly hideous to call), raising at least takes control and forces out other hands.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
The correct play is to put all your chips in the middle right away, as any smaller raise commits you, and 250 isnt enough to make your opponent fold..

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do I want my opponents to fold when I have QQ?

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The correct play is to put all your chips in the middle right away, as any smaller raise commits you, and 250 isnt enough to make your opponent fold..

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do I want my opponents to fold when I have QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I have to pay them when they hit their A3o, why shouldn't they pay me just as much when they miss?

[curtains]

Because there is already 125 in the pot, raising to 250 lets them call for 125 to win 375, good odds with a lot of hands, especially those including aces. QQ is not bulletproof or anything close to it.

[treeofwisdom7]

3 reasons why i fold QQ.
1. Because i will be dominated at least 1/3 times.
2. Because i will get out drawn 1/4 times.
3. Because it might be a coin flip and i will win 1/2 times.