Eating meat.

[goofball]

I eat meat. I do it all the time every day. I like the taste and frequently it's cheap and fast to get a fastfood burger. All of this doesn't change the fact that, despite my best efforts, I cannot come up with a rational argument that eating meat is morally impermissible. More to the point I can't disprove counterarguments. This is especially true when we consider the farming conditions in this country.

Even the very basic "how can you patronize companies who induce all this suffering" are fairly compelling for me. I mean, I don't need to eat meat, there are other ways to get protein, and so forth. I do it because I like to. Can I really justify supporting these barbaric procedures for my own personal pleasure?

I mean, if I had my own personal ranch in the mountains west of town, and I rounded up stray dogs and took them up there and killed them (or tortured them if you must) for my own personal pleasure, it would be almost universally accepted as morally impermissible. I have a very hard time seeing the difference between this and eating meat. Each case involves endorsing or creating suffering for my personal pleasure.

Giving up meat would be a hugely difficult for me. Nevertheless I just feel that all of meat eaters are on the wrong side of history.

[Stuey]

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I like the taste

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Have you ever considered why you like the taste?

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Giving up meat would be a hugely difficult for me.

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Have you ever tried to give up meat?

I was trying to educate myself on these issues recently. After reading a few books I was not convinced one way or the other. The thought of not eating meat seemed impossible for me. But I wanted to find out for myself what this was all about.

So I quit eating all animal products, I have survived for one month and I am amazed. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Seriously, I didn't think I could make it a day even.

I'm not sure if I will stick with a vegan diet forever though. It takes some work and planning, but I guess if I am putting it in my body I should not be so lazy.

There are a few interesting things I have noticed though.

1. I do not crave meat and the food I eat now tastes just as good as I thought meat tasted when I was eating it. Meat eaters that taste my food tell me it tastes bad. I think by not eating meat my "tastes" have changed. Or the great taste that was meat has faded with time so my mind set has changed. Now I satisfy my hunger with different foods and they taste good because my body is just happy to get food. I truly don't know but something happened.

2. It was not very hard to stop eating animal products. The first week I missed the meat. But then it got easy and is not something I think about anymore. Quitting sugar is much harder imo. I have also stopped the refined sugars during this time. I think about having some sweets everyday. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

3. I don't feel much "better" however. But I was in very good health to begin with so it is hard to tell. I feel just as good and have as much energy as before.

4. I have no moral objections to eating meat. I am sure I would be disgusted if I saw for myself where and how the meat I was eating was produced. I grew up on a small farm and we had cows, chickens, and pigs. We killed some for our own use and sold the rest I never saw it as being cruel.

I am sure the large farms where most of our meat comes from are much different. Without going to see it first hand I don't think I get just how cruel it might be. So I guess I will remain open to the idea that mass farming for meat might be morally wrong. It is kind of amazing and embarrassing to admit I did not think this over before. I just wanted to eat that yummy meat.

If I had to produce my own meat I am sure I would not choose to treat the animals the way big farming operations do. So I guess I should think more about the moral right and wrongs in this area. But I feel normal farming and hunting for meat is morally ok.

And remember I have only been doing this 1-month. I think I need to do it much longer to learn if it is truly a superior diet for me. And I do think that everyone is different and no one should be telling others what to do. But it is also very important to educate yourself so you make wise choices.

I am going to stick this out as long as I can and as long as I feel it is not negatively affecting my health. It is and was the only way I could answer many of the questions I had. I just wanted to share my story, as I am the last person anyone thought would stop eating animal products. If you really want to know if it is for you the simplest way is to try it, you can always return to a normal diet if you don't like it.

[TStoneMBD]

your post really doesnt concern the morality of meat but the attachment we have to it. ive come to realize that its very easy to suppress cravings of the body if you void yourself of them. i am on a strict taco diet right now as funny as that concept is, but if i eat something sweet i want more of it. if i dont eat anything sweet i dont notice the difference.

likewise, when i drank soda regularly, it seemed almost impossible to start drinking water instead. now i drink water exclusively and dont crave soda at all.

i think diets get easier as your body gets used to them. the hardest part is when you first make the switch.

[KDawgCometh]

I'm not so sure that meat eaters are on the wrong side of history. While we can't live on a full uncooked meat diet, we also cannot fully live on an all vegan diet. In meat itself, there are vitamins that are neccessary to our own survival. If one is to go to an all vegan or raw food diet, you would need to supplement those vitamins. I do think that in some cases meat eating has gone too far, just look at how america has grown around the waist over the last 30 years. This is a direct cause of Fast Food corporations growing and placing ads all over the place tempting us to eat their products. Humans are omnivores. WE can't live without vegatables, and those who don't eat meat need to supplement the vitamins that they lose by not eating meat. I do my best to go by the creed, if I can't kill it myself, I try not to eat it. WHich basically means that the meat that I eat is predominatly turkey and chicken. now since I live in an urban area, I can't exactly go out and shoot a turkey or chicken, but you get what I'm saying. I'm not in the best shape, but I have noticed how much better I feel when I don't eat fried foods and when I don't eat at places like McDonalds and Burger King

[SheetWise]

One of the perks to being at the top of the food chain.

[chickenbeaks]

Canine teeth. We are built to eat meat.

[Stuey]

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your post really doesnt concern the morality of meat but the attachment we have to it.

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Yes, but I feel our attachment to it stops us from examining the morality of it. I know I did not consider it till I stopped eating the animal products. Now I see things different. I still haven't made my mind up but I am much more open to the idea I might have been wrong.

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ive come to realize that its very easy to suppress cravings of the body if you void yourself of them.

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i think diets get easier as your body gets used to them. the hardest part is when you first make the switch.

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From my experience I have found these two ideas to be key. I would also add that the cravings can be reactivated very easily so I always have to be careful or I'm right back where I started.

[Stuey]

Vitamin B12 sources (http://www.pamrotella.com/health/b12.html)

more details (http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/)

[jason1990]

Two points that have been mentioned are: (1) We can't survive without meat unless we supplement our diet with certain vitamins. (2) Our canine teeth show that we are meant to eat meat.

For (1), I think the implication was that we must have man-made, "artificial" vitamin supplements. If so, that is very false. There are cultures that have not eaten meat for millenia. Of course, their diets have evolved so that the foods they eat and the way those foods are prepared is very important for getting the vitamins and protiens needed by the body. If you are uneducated about these things and simply stop eating meat, then your health may suffer. But one can have a completely natural vegetarian diet which provides all the needed nutrition.

As for (2), it seems kind of silly. If there was a dead cow on the ground and I had to walk up to it with my hands tied behind my back and eat it, I don't think my canine teeth would serve me very well. True carnivorous animals with the teeth for eating meat don't need hands. They don't need fire or utensils. They just stick their face in the carcass and enjoy. It's hard to imagine our little "fangs" can do that. And I also read somewhere that we are the only primates which regularly eat meat, and yet they all have canine teeth much bigger than ours.

Anyway, I don't think there's any scientific evidence that we're "supposed" to eat meat, whatever that might mean. But if you want to stop, then you need to be careful to eat the right things in order to get the needed nutrition.

[MMMMMM]

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Canine teeth. We are built to eat meat.

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We have more molars than canine teeth, though, and molars are found in herbivores rather than in carnivores.

Also, we have long convoluted intestinal tracts and elongated stomachs, which is a mark of an herbivore. Carnivores have more roundish stomachs and shorter more direct intestinal tracts.

We are probably built to eat mostly vegetables/fruits/grains, along with a modest amount of meat. Perhaps a meat:veggie ratio of something like 1:8 (just a guess on ratio).

Our closest relatives, the chimpanzees, generally have a diet of primarily veggie stuff augmented with occasional meat.

[Zeno]

Most hominids are omnivores. The reasons are, I would think, obvious, and darwinian.

-Zeno

[K C]

We can easily make the distinction between the eating of the meat and any explicit or implicit endorsement of production methods. We may still feel guilty about it perhaps but it we can't say that the eating of the meat is in itself wrong. Wrongful actions require a clear and temporal element of causation between the alleged wrongdoer and the alleged wrongful act, and this is not present here.

Whether or not these acts are wrongful or not in the first place is another matter entirely though, and I wouldn't just want to assume it. Some actions against animals are going to be easier to establish than others, but things like commercial livestock farming and the like will be much more difficult to be sure.

KC

[miajag81]

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As for (2), it seems kind of silly. If there was a dead cow on the ground and I had to walk up to it with my hands tied behind my back and eat it, I don't think my canine teeth would serve me very well. True carnivorous animals with the teeth for eating meat don't need hands. They don't need fire or utensils. They just stick their face in the carcass and enjoy. It's hard to imagine our little "fangs" can do that. And I also read somewhere that we are the only primates which regularly eat meat, and yet they all have canine teeth much bigger than ours.


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Our canines aren't designed to actually kill and tear flesh from a carcass like a tiger or lion. That's what our hands are for. Our sharp teeth are just for biting and tearing the meat once we get it in our mouths.