Where do you rate winning the WSOP?

[Poker Jon]

Hey all,

Haven't posted for ages, but just wanted to find out where the poker playing fraternity rated Hachem's feat of defeating 5,619 people willing to part with $10,000 and sit for 7 days playing poker - to me it is a pretty mean feat!

However, where do we rate it among other sporting accomplishments??

[Poker Jon]

FWIW - Lance Armstrong takes it for me at the moment, although Niclaus is close for prolonged superiority!

[ononimo]

you're asking where we rate the winner of a single championship event against several sporting icons who have each established long track records of winning at the highest level possible?

um, let me get back to you on that one.

[allinadam]

Is this sarcasm? If not, I don't understand.

[ChuckyB]

If we're picking a basketball player...The Celtics Bill Russell won 11 titles in his 13 seasons. That, for me, would've surpassed even Lance Armstrong.

[Nick B.]

This is the stupidest poll ever.

[timeslip]

worst. post. ever.

[touchfaith]

http://cache.boston.com/images/daily/04/hot_dogs.jpg


You left one out...

[clutch]

Poker is not a sport.

My vote goes to Kasparov.

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is not a sport.

My vote goes to Kasparov.

[/ QUOTE ]

In chess, Judit Polgar ranked 10th in the world(in 2004). No other woman has ever been ranked in top 200.

[Freudian]

Of course winning a WSOP ME ranks much lower than all those others. That is for a simple reason. Someone had to win it. If he was to repeat it next year, then we can start comparing him to those others.

[Poker Jon]

Freudian,

In any event, someone has to win?

Would be a bit pointless taking part if noone won!

Jon

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
Freudian,

In any event, someone has to win?

Would be a bit pointless taking part if noone won!

Jon

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
If he was to repeat it next year, then we can start comparing him to those others.

[/ QUOTE ]

It appears you have taken a selective reading class.

[Offsprung]

Apples and oranges...

Sports and poker...

[Poker Jon]

Looks like the flack has come my way.

My point with this post, is that, can anybody name another sport where the person who wins the event has to play his/her event for 7 days solid at least 12 hours a day (84 hours in a week for those who don't want to do the maths).

1) You need mental strength to rival any chess player
2) the physical strength to not fall asleep/keep awake/alert
3) Intellectual ability to think and analyse situations quickly

These three attributes alone are tough enough to do for any sort of prolonged period, but to do them for 7 days continuously is a huge feat and something I think is worthy of mention among the other great sporting acheivements of our time.

I will also make a bold statement now:

No player from this day forth, will win the WSOP big one twice in their lifetime! Ever! Period!

What do you reckon to that?

Jon

[Poker Jon]

Apples and Oranges are different from each other but still belong to the same class:

That being fruit!

I think this is a good analogy of poker and sport.

Similar, but different

[einbert]

Raymer and Harrington's achievements in the past 3 years are much much greater than Hachem's achievement this year, IMO.

And comparing him with these other sports figures that actually have won multiple world championships, um yeah. That's pretty ridiculous.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
1) You need mental strength to rival any chess player
2) the physical strength to not fall asleep/keep awake/alert
3) Intellectual ability to think and analyse situations quickly

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know who came in second right?

In case you missed it:
[ QUOTE ]

Steve Dannenmann has the button, he raises to $700,000, and Hachem calls. The flop comes 6h-5d-4d, Hachem checks, Dannenmann bets $700,000, Hachem raises to $1,700,000, and Dannenmann calls. The turn card is the As, Hachem bets $2,000,000, and Dannenmann slowly raises to $5,000,000, Hachem reraises all in, and Dannenmann immediately calls. Hachem shows 7c-3s (seven-high straight), while Dannenman has Ad-3c (top pair). Dannenmann needs to catch a seven on the river to chop the pot with equal straights.

[/ QUOTE ]
from cardplayer.com

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Lance's, definately. Having to perform good at so many occasions in a sport that needs musscles, endurance, intelligence and technique.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]

My point with this post, is that, can anybody name another sport where the person who wins the event has to play his/her event for 7 days solid at least 12 hours a day (84 hours in a week for those who don't want to do the maths).


[/ QUOTE ]

Tour de France lasts 21 days /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[TStoneMBD]

winning the wsop, while a dream of everyone, has pretty much become a joke. to even consider it as the greatest accomplishment of sports history is madness. next year the winner of that event will have topped this year's? and the year after that? dont be ridiculous.

[WackityWhiz]

what a joke, somebody had to win this years wsop, and that person shouldn't be automatically put in a group of athletes that you have in your poll.

dumb, just dumb

[Poker Jon]

I agree in terms of length of days, but you don't have to concentrate for the length of time you do in poker.

I agree though that Lance is amazing, and in my book is the greatest athlete of all time!

[Poker Jon]

In my first post, I said that Lance Armstrong's feat was the biggest accomplishment. I don't think winning the WSOP is the biggest acheievement.

Howevere, there are people who do think this. Thus, the option to vote for Joseph

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Howevere, there are people who do think this. Thus, the option to vote for Joseph

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, some people consider me the greatest athlete of all time.

Yet, I don't seem to be an option on your list.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Finishing 2nd in National Monopolo Championship did not make it on the list?

Damn /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Poker Jon]

True.

But I don't.

So you weren't included.

[NYCNative]

I rate all of them considerably above the accomplishment that was coming up with this poll.

[valenzuela]

well...of those listed, I only have a minimal shot at one.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
I will also make a bold statement now:

No player from this day forth, will win the WSOP big one twice in their lifetime! Ever! Period!

[/ QUOTE ]

If I thought there would be a way to collect, I'd make this bet --

Starting with the 2006 WSOP ME and running through the 2036 ME, at least one player will win the ME more than once.

In other words wipe the slate clean, forget about past wins, someone will win at least twice in the next 30 years.

For a variety of reasons, I think that it's a near certainty.

[DarthIgnurnt]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is not a sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

[JimHammer]

Just because poker is on ESPN, that doesn't make it a sport.

[Howard Treesong]

That's why I picked Spitz: it's the closest to Hachem in that it demonstrates outstanding performance over a pretty short period of time. The others are all much longer-term.

[EricOF]

Every single one of those other things actually requires that you truly be the best, or at least damn close to the best, at what you do.

[EricOF]

BTW, Nicklaus not only won eighteen majors, he placed 2nd in majors an additional NINETEEN times. THIRTY-SEVEN top two finishes in the biggest and most prestigious golf tournaments in the world. Now THAT'S greatness and Tiger will never match that.

[ChuckyB]

Kasparov? My vote goes to Deep Blue

[ChuckyB]

Kobayashi wins! Anyone can races through mountains in France...but eat 50+ hot dogs in 12 minutes...that is the ultimate.

[Nottom]

Anyone who voted for the WSOP here is an idiot.

[Shoe]

You can't compare him to Lance Armstrong until he wins the WSOP 7 years in a row. Even then I don't know how you can compare a mental sport like poker to any other physical sport.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who voted is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]

In chess, Judit Polgar ranked 10th in the world(in 2004). No other woman has ever been ranked in top 200.

[/ QUOTE ]

women aren't inferior creatures. just because they aren't established in chess doesn't mean that they can't be. how is this a major accomplishment in chess let alone competitive sporting events.

Judit Polgar's accomplishments are definitely much much less than Kasparov's or any other world champion's for obvious reasons.

[popniklas]

well put threeonefour.

also, the idea that one single poker tourney win can be compared to dominating a sport for several years is... not correct. i'm voting for russian wrestler alexander karelin by the way. or at least i would like to add him to the list.

[flo]

I don't think it can be compared. If Armstrong wins 6 times or Tiger Woods 199 times, then that's extraordinary good. If someone wins WSOP ME, that's nothing. Why? Because someone HAS to win. If they let apes play, one ape will win. Now can we compare that ape to Lance Armstrong or Tiger Woods? If someone wins WSOP ME x times, then we can compare.
If that's already been discussed: sry, i didn't read the whole thing /images/graemlins/laugh.gif And no, i don't think the WSOP winner is an ape, i didn't judge his play with this post.

[sully4321]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is not a sport.

My vote goes to Kasparov.

[/ QUOTE ]

In chess, Judit Polgar ranked 10th in the world(in 2004). No other woman has ever been ranked in top 200.

[/ QUOTE ]

um... so?
chess = gay
women that play chess = gay
chess rankings (?) = gay
your post = gay
original post = gay

[valenzuela]

and my ignore list gets thicker.

[MegaBet]

Well, there was a 100% chance that SOMEONE would win the WSOP Main Event. The same cannot be said of the other achievements, which are obviously far superior!

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]

um... so?
chess = gay
women that play chess = gay
chess rankings (?) = gay
your post = gay
original post = gay


[/ QUOTE ]

there are so many things wrong with this post that it's not even worth it...

[rokstedy]

I don't believe that it belongs with any of those since there HAS to be a winner, by default. Now if Raymer had won, we'd have something to talk about.

[OrianasDaad]

Mabye Fischer vs. Larsen or Taiminov in the '71 Candidates tournaments. Both 6-0 sweeps, both with a little luck involved.

[Publos Nemesis]

[ QUOTE ]
Hachem's feat of defeating 5,619 people willing to part with $10,000 and sit for 7 days playing poker - to me it is a pretty mean feat!

[/ QUOTE ]

well, the problem is that someone had to win it, and it's little different than playing the lotto to a certain extent (i.e. there is a huge amount of luck involved, witness KK vs AA hand, or raymer's KK hand, etc...)

all of the other things you listed were repeated achievements. when it is repeated, don't you think it is significantly different than winning the wsop once?

[sammysusar]

basically someone had to win the wsop me and the someone was likely to be an unknown on numbers alone. maybe raymer winning two yrs in a row or someone winning twice in 5 yrs. would need to be on that list. id have to say though in poker it would be important to look at a larger group of tournies like all the wpt and wsop events to judge greatness.

[TransientR]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like the flack has come my way.

My point with this post, is that, can anybody name another sport where the person who wins the event has to play his/her event for 7 days solid at least 12 hours a day (84 hours in a week for those who don't want to do the maths).

1) You need mental strength to rival any chess player
2) the physical strength to not fall asleep/keep awake/alert
3) Intellectual ability to think and analyse situations quickly

These three attributes alone are tough enough to do for any sort of prolonged period, but to do them for 7 days continuously is a huge feat and something I think is worthy of mention among the other great sporting acheivements of our time.

I will also make a bold statement now:

No player from this day forth, will win the WSOP big one twice in their lifetime! Ever! Period!

What do you reckon to that?

Jon

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I don't think you "need the mental strength" to rival any chess player. Most hands you fold, in chess you have to move.

2. "Physical strength" please. Sitting on your ass for hours at a time is not at all comparable physically to what Lance Armstrong has to do in any stage of the Tour. I'm sure Lance could easily sit and play poker nearly forever without fatigue. If you subjected the competitors at the WSOP to a Tour time trial, no less a mountain climb, better have a fleet of ambulances on hand to haul away the dead and dying /images/graemlins/grin.gif

3. Yes in poker you have to analyze situations quickly, certainly compared to chess, but perhaps that is just because most plays in poker do not need to be analyzed in the depth that many chess plays require. I do think nerve and psychological cunning plays a major part in separating the best poker players from the rest. I don't think the math of poker, the importance of position, pot odds, implied pot odds, etc., is anything a reasonably intelligent person can't master with decent effort.

I think winning the WSOP is a great achievement, but considering the luck factor in the game, the winner is unlikely to be the best player in the world, while for the other sporting achievements you cite, there is no doubt that the winning person is the best there is.

Frank

[lozen]

Wayne Greztky missed but I woould still vote Lance

[TheCroShow]

might as well throw up there "winning the lottery"

[detroitplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Wayne Greztky missed but I woould still vote Lance

[/ QUOTE ]
Howe > Gretzky. Hockey is a physical game by nature and the greatest hockey player cannot be someone who did not participate in that aspect.

[Eegs]

Somewhere along the lines of winnig the lottery...

[Sabrazack]

If we are comparing sport achievements with poker why dont we have Johnny Chans 2 time win and runner up years? However, it could still just be due to variance. Armstrong winning again and again is quite simply not.

[BlackAces]

Lance wins (soon to be) 7 Tours, and it's not even close.