A6 river fold

[BottlesOf]

sb is unknown
button is 67/10/.9 fish

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds

[Nietzsche]

I think the fold is correct. The best you can hope for is to split the pot and with CO yet to act I think the odds are too low for a call.

[Buck_65]

Wow, I don't think I'd be able to make this fold. I think you split a lot here. Villain may have been attempting to check-raise the flop with a Q or flush draw and decided to try again on the turn. I'm looking forward to more responses.

[SparkyDog]

Out of curiousity, how often do you think you're ahead on the turn?

I think the river fold is pretty easy though. Best case scenario is villian had Q6, that's the only hand you'd scoop the pot. Other than that hand it's a chop, which effectively cuts your odds from 8.5-1 to 4.25-1. So I don't think it's really worth it, unless you have a read on CO being superloose and can count on him to overcall and pad the pot consistently.

[TheMetetron]

I consider leading the flop, though this is a really borderline spot where I may not.

Regardless, I am confused by the lack of a 3-bet on the turn. In a 3-way pot, you don't think 2 pair with an Ace is the best hand? I only don't 3-bet, if I'm going to raise a non-scary river.

Given, the river, I don't see how you found a fold and it doesn't seem correct unless you had some read I missed (which it doesn't look like you did). I'm with everyone else in that you split often, given the action.

[wildwood]

If hero's table image here is even just a little tight, I lead bet the flop after sb checks. sb's turn c/r indicates a strong hand, but since he is unknown, I call down. Just my thoughts.

[mungpo]

Would a 3-bet be a bad play on the turn?

[dhaimon]

I'd 3-bet turn. River fold is probably OK.

[wheelz]

It looks like SB has QT, Q6, Ax to me. I'm curious why you didn't 3-bet the turn as well. Surely QQ TT AQ and likely AT or 66 or JK raises preflop, and JK might bet the flop.

I think the river might be a call, idiots may still bet Q6, QT or AT is beating you now but not as likely, and you'll split with most aces.

[Michael Davis]

No, this fold is no good. You have done nothing to represent the actual strength of your hand.

-Michael

[gaming_mouse]

Johnny,

Why didn't you:

1. Bet the flop?
2. 3-bet the turn?

I think I like the river fold against such a passive player, though there might be enough chance he plays (and has) a weaker A to justify a call.....

gm

[Poldi]

Wow I dont like it. You wont get outkicked because of the Q so I think most of the time you split this pot.

[J. Sawyer]

Am I wrong if i want to three-bet the turn? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[party36master]

I would lead the flop.

The way you played it, I would 3 bet the turn.

I think you chop here often enough to call the river.

[ISF]

I think not leading the flop here is really bad. They way you played it I threebet the turn. As well I cant see folding this river I think you split way more often then not. I doubt he plays KJ this way and you beat any ace he could reasonably have played this way.

[Lost Wages]

I don't like it. Passive donks are weird some times. Last night a player that is like 60/6/0.5 went berserk 3-betting ace high on the flop and turn against my over pair. Of course he rivered an ace to take it /images/graemlins/frown.gif. Somtimes I think that they just get sick of being pushed around. Or maybe he's seen your aggressive play and figures you are stealing, again.

Lost Wages

[sthief09]

start by 3-betting the turn


oh yeah, there's one piece of information that everyone's overlooking:
[ QUOTE ]
button is 67/10/.9 fish

[/ QUOTE ]

this is critical

[tolbiny]

"sb's turn c/r indicates a strong hand"

Not necessarily- the flop was checked around and then the BB bet out. The best hand you can really give credit to the BB for is a pair of Aces (occasionally he will have a stronger hand, but given the action i wouldn't give him credit for it untill a three bet comes my way). I would three bet this turn- especially with the loose cutoff who could easily call two more. It seems like a lot of equity to give up there.

[BottlesOf]

by button I meant CO /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BottlesOf]

The co called the river and had Q4 (huh?)
The sb had KJ for bway.

Looking back a day later, I think a turn 3-bet makes a lot of sense, but I really got a passive vibe from this sb and read that turn c/r as very likely more than a lesser 2 pr. I didn't include this as a read, b/c I don't think it really was a read. Maybe it was, it was kind of a feeling. Ever have those?

Perhaps this was just a bad session getting to me and pushing me into a shell.

[climber]

Yeah I'd often lead this flop and 3-betting the turn is def reasonable. I'll never fold two-pair here with an ace. At least call down if you dont want to 3-bet the turn.

[Buck_65]

[ QUOTE ]
The co called the river and had Q4 (huh?)
The sb had KJ for bway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you found a hell of a game if CO is open-limping Q4 and if SB fails to raise KJ preflop...

[StellarWind]

Bet the flop.

You originally said SB is unknown but obviously you do know something and it is valid to listen to that. Against some players this turn checkraise is extremely bad news because it means they are terrified you will fold. Otherwise they would bet to prevent a second checkthrough. Clearly if you are at the table and you sense that then you need to forego the normal turn 3-bet and call down. Folding the river is also understandable but I'd need a really clear feeling about what was happening.

Against a genuine unknown I'm 3-betting the turn because I'm getting odds from the bozo and the risk is worth taking. Nor would it occur to me to fold the river for one bet with such a good hand.

Table-feel hands like this one simply don't post well.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Wow, you found a hell of a game if CO is open-limping Q4 and if SB fails to raise KJ preflop...


[/ QUOTE ]

I see people open-limoing crap like Q4 all the time.

And is it standard to raise KJ preflop from the small blind? Doesn't seem like something I would do.

Guy.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
And is it standard to raise KJ preflop from the small blind? Doesn't seem like something I would do.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's my usual play versus one loose limper. I want to isolate him. And if BB absolutely can't fold anything then the raise offers a little value versus his two random cards and the limper's not-good-enough-to-steal hand.