10/20 6max: A turn raise - ATo

[Surfbullet]

Villain is a 60/26 over ~20 hands. He's been known to be overly aggressive, and I've seen him bluff a few times in the 20something hands I've been at the table with him. I haven't done much but fold at this table so far this session, mostly postflop.

Party Poker (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero raises...

[jfresh]

i hate when i get donked in these situations as well. i think it is a fine play, but depending on his aggression (which i know you said is overly) i'm split between just calling down. especially with that turn card, i doubt he's folding anything that beats you. the only thing i hope for is snapping his busted flush draw.... or complete bluff

[GetThere1Time]

I like this line. I usually always get to showdown when anyone but a total rock donk-leads the flop. I find myself either raising the flop and betting the turn or calling the flop and raising the turn to free showdown. The exception being if the bettor is a tricky TAG who'll lead monsters to induce action.

[jdock99]

Is there even the slightest chance in the world that this player would fold a hand that beats yours?? And if not, is this a value raise because you think your A high is good.

As for hoping that a bad player would notice you are playing tight and therefor give you respect and let you bluff a pot, I find this to never work, and definitely not for lack of trying.

[wheelz]

Yeah, I don't know that this is such a good idea either. If he has a worse hand, you give him the option of 3-bet bluffing you off the best hand, or you cost yourself a BB if he folds, although you don't let him catch something on the river. The pot is small though so letting him bluff is better. If he has a better hand than you he isn't folding, so this line doesn't really benefit you. If he has a draw he would've likely bluffed the river as well so you just put yourself in a tough spot if he calls then he bets into you on the river when a spade hits. Or heart, or any card for that matter.

I think you might be best just calling this guy down with ace high.

[wheelz]

What about raising the flop, if he 3-bets call then fold the turn UI, if he calls check the turn UI then call any river?

[donger]

What are you guys doing if the turn is the K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and he donks again?

[Alobar]

I don't like it.

He will never fold a better hand, I doubt he folds any hand at all actually. There isnt much point to this raise against this type of player. If you call, hes betting the river, so its still the same 2BB that go in the pot, and since Im highly doubtful he folds to your turn raise he's still hitting the river and winning the same amount of times. Plus after your turn raise, I doubt he calls a river bet with a worse hand. So again, it isnt realyl for value. Plus against this type of player, you put yourself in the position of getting 3 bet on the turn by a worse hand (aggro flush draw, or just a straight up bluff), or getting called on the turn and then donked into on the river.

Its also a small pot, so the times he does fold a 6 outter on the turn to your raise, dont make up for all the bets youd win when he bluffs at the river again.

[ISF]

I think your much better off just calling down here. These types of playes are only worthwile in situations there the probability of someone folding a better hand is &gt;0. He will pay the same two big bets by bluffing the river those times you are ahead.

[Surfbullet]

FWIW, my standard line here would be to call down.

My thoughts during the hand:
-I've folded repeatedly postflop at this table, literally haven't made it to 1 showdown. Players like this have started betting at me each hand - so I'm choosing between calling down and raising for value.
-This is a draw-heavy board, and also a relatively nonthreatening one. I'll get called by A-high, flus draws, straight draws. Also, I'd like to give him the chance to fold 22 or 33 (if he's capable of it).
-I can bet for value again on the river if I hit one of my 6 outs.


However, I didn't consider the points raised by alobar et al, mainly that A) I may get 3bet by a worse jhand (FD) and B)A player like this will continue his bluff on the river nearly always,and he doesn't have odds to hit a 6 outer.

Anyway, I raised, and (to my surprise) villain folded. I was happy to make this play entirely for metagame considerations but the superior play in retrospect was to call down. If he was a more reasonable LAG and capable of folding better hands then I would much prefer my line.

Surf