$109s - Play Another Hand With Me

[Unarmed]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1095)
Hero (t975)
UTG (t2100)
UTG+1 (t880)
MP1 (t930)
MP2 (t1130)
MP3 (t970)
CO (t915)
Button (t1005)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t55</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls t45, Hero calls t40.

Flop: (t165) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t50</font>, Hero ???

I'll post a couple possible deviations once we decide on the initial action. No reads on these dudes.

[lastchance]

Raises to t200.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Raises to t200.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ZeroPointMachine]

raise 250.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
raise 250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps raising is correct, but if we raise we're laying down the best hand to a semi-bluff from either player a good % of the time. Maybe this doesn't happen enough to bother worrying about it.

[The Yugoslavian]

t207 (b/c I'm unique)

I'm not thrilled about putting so many chips out there...but your TT should be good here.

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise 250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps raising is correct, but if we raise we're laying down the best hand to a semi-bluff from either player a good % of the time. Maybe this doesn't happen enough to bother worrying about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can take the heat from the SB.....probably not from MP, though.

Yugoslav

[morgan180]

this looks like the sandwich effect to me - if you call you'll be reraised a good % of the time anyways so you might as well be the agressor here and raise it 175ish - only because i don't like calling or folding here.

[raptor517]

225ish fold to a reraise. i think i bleed a lot of chips in spots like this though.. holla

[curtains]

Im so weak tight that I fold this preflop.

[lastchance]

Seriously? Bad position, but you've got tons of BB and TT...

At the very least, calling isn't horrible.

[curtains]

of course calling isnt horrible, but I fold.

[curtains]

Holy crap so sorry, thought we were in the SB. In BB of course I will call after the SB caller. I do fold though if its headsup from SB or BB.

If raise was from cutoff or button I raise to like 150ish.

[Scuba Chuck]

I think a call here is best. Let's put SB on a hand.

He either has something like A8, or two pair, or a flush draw, IMO. If hero calls, and the other raiser folds, then I like to play going forward with most any card that falls, as long as it doesn't pair the board or complete a flush. Even if limper calls, and the turn is an under card, then I would move forward. If limper reraises, I'm out.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a call here is best. Let's put SB on a hand.

He either has something like A8, or two pair, or a flush draw, IMO. If hero calls, and the other raiser folds, then I like to play going forward with most any card that falls, as long as it doesn't pair the board or complete a flush. Even if limper calls, and the turn is an under card, then I would move forward. If limper reraises, I'm out.

[/ QUOTE ]

by calling, the original raiser is going to be getting ~5:1, I dont like that. My thinking would be that I called PF to win this hand and I am looking good, so I raise t250.

[wiggs73]

I'd raise and fold to a re-raise. I think it's likely that SB is just defending his blind and the 8, or maybe even 2 of the other flop cards, hit him. This looks like either a "I have a monster and I'm going to lead with a small bet" bet or a typical probe bet where he's trying to find where he stands with a pair.

MP can have 2 over cards or an over pair. I think he lays 2 overs down to a raise and this is what you want him to do. No reason to give A, K, Q, or J a cheap shot at beating you. If he has an overpair, or if SB has 2 pair or a set or something like that you'll probably be able to tell.

So my line is to raise to about 200 and proceed with caution from there. You have what is likely the best hand, but also a hand that can't stand up to a ton of heat from either player, given how it's been played so far.

[RobGW]

Curtains,

Would you care to explain why you would fold TT to one raise and being HU?

Rob

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a call here is best. Let's put SB on a hand.

He either has something like A8, or two pair, or a flush draw, IMO. If hero calls, and the other raiser folds, then I like to play going forward with most any card that falls, as long as it doesn't pair the board or complete a flush. Even if limper calls, and the turn is an under card, then I would move forward. If limper reraises, I'm out.

[/ QUOTE ]

by calling, the original raiser is going to be getting ~5:1, I dont like that. My thinking would be that I called PF to win this hand and I am looking good, so I raise t250.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I don't like raising for that reason, but I'm willing to accept that this may be there rare time where raising "for information" may be correct. (although I really don't want to believe this)

Calling puts us in an awful spot, mostly because PF raiser will not fold anything getting 5-1, as you pointed out.
If we call and:

- raiser raises, we are out. Thats pretty simple.
- raiser calls and the turn comes A or K and the SB bets out, we're done.
- raiser calls and the turn comes A or K and the SB checks, are we betting? Because if we don't, PF raiser will take the hand with any two cards.
- raiser calls and the turn brings a club, we're done
- raiser calls and the turn bricks and the SB leads for 120ish, we're in a crappy spot OOP with horrid reverse implied odds, but I guess we'd pump the SB here?
- raiser calls and the turn bricks and the SB checks. This is really the only good thing that can happen if we call, and we'll likely never get to see the turn because PF raiser will see a donk lead by SB, a weak call from me, and jack it up with any two cards.

Yuck.
So anyway, raising is correct here, because calling absolutely sucks. Personally, I just folded because I figured there was a good chance SB was on Ax /images/graemlins/club.gif and would reraise all-in if I raised. I reasoned my TT couldn't take the heat, but I think I may be wrong here and could actually call a push by SB, because the only hand he can possible have that beats me is a set, and I'm not really in the habit of worrying about that on SNG stacks.