Terrible ruling at Binion's last night

[dlk9s]

I'm out here in Vegas covering the WSOP and my boss and I decided to slack off and play in the 8:00pm tourney at Binion's ($60 + one $40 re-buy).

After the second break, as the cards were being dealt, something didn't feel right to me. As I scanned the table, I noticed the player in Seat 8 (I was in Seat 3, so I had a great view of everyone) was not the same one who was there before. He had the same chip stack and the original player was not eliminated, plus it seemed weird that they would move one person from the table without breaking everybody.

I actually spoke up and asked everybody to stop play for a second so I could point this out. The new kid (he looked like a kid) said the original player was disqualified, but he'd explain it fully after the hand. That was cool by me, so we continued. Nothing happened in the hand - everyone folded to the button, who raised, and I folded in the BB.

While the dealer was shuffling, the new kid explained that it was his friend who was playing originally, but at the break, security carded him. When he couldn't produce ID, security wouldn't let him continue playing, but allowed him to return to his hotel to get his ID. In the meantime, his friend was permitted to stand in as a SUBSTITUTE.

What?

Almost in unison, the rest of us called for the floor before the next hand. The tournament manager came over and said it was ok for him to be a sub. We all (some more than others) vehemently protested. After all, what if we knew, say, Greg Raymer, who had just busted from the WSOP and he was willing to sit in for us? Would that be fair?

After a couple minutes of arguing, the tournament director gave in and said the player would just be anted and blinded off. It was ridiculous.

In the end, I was never hurt by this weirdness (I was hurt by a major suckout, but that's another story), but it did make for some fun commentary for the next hour.

[Bremen]

huh? I have a hard time believing this happened

[HopeydaFish]

Tag team hold'em. Once the poker bubble starts to burst, this will be one of ESPN's attempts at rejuvenating the game.

"Tonight's main event: Phil Ivey and Greg Raymer vs. Doyle Brunson and Gus Hansen...winner take all!"

[PITTM]

its like hogan knows best, the original player was tagging out on this one and the new player was playing, whats the big deal? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

rj

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually spoke up and asked everybody to stop play for a second so I could point this out. The new kid (he looked like a kid) said the original player was disqualified, but he'd explain it fully after the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. It's not going any further until this matter is settled right then and there. Perferrably prior to the hand being dealt. What if someone busts out on this hand because of him? The new kid isn't going to be the one who's going to explain it to me. Call the floor immediately.

b

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually spoke up and asked everybody to stop play for a second so I could point this out. The new kid (he looked like a kid) said the original player was disqualified, but he'd explain it fully after the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. It's not going any further until this matter is settled right then and there.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point, I'd not have called the floor, as until the kid gives his explanation, there's a reasonable and probable one: the kid who was DQd leaves the tournament, his chips are forfeited (as they should have been, not blinded off), and this guy is the replacement. So, calling over the floor would be premature.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually spoke up and asked everybody to stop play for a second so I could point this out. The new kid (he looked like a kid) said the original player was disqualified, but he'd explain it fully after the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. It's not going any further until this matter is settled right then and there.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point, I'd not have called the floor, as until the kid gives his explanation, there's a reasonable and probable one: the kid who was DQd leaves the tournament, his chips are forfeited (as they should have been, not blinded off), and this guy is the replacement. So, calling over the floor would be premature.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even so, it doesn't matter what the kid says. What if he lies and says they moved him during break? What if he gives the reason you mentioned. I want the explanation from someone with some authority. Not from some player that I don't know who just appears at my table.

b

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
At this point, I'd not have called the floor, as until the kid gives his explanation, there's a reasonable and probable one: the kid who was DQd leaves the tournament, his chips are forfeited (as they should have been, not blinded off), and this guy is the replacement. So, calling over the floor would be premature.

[/ QUOTE ]
After the second break the DQd guy forfeits his chips, a replacement is brought in, and he has the same chip stack as the guy who left? Doesn't sound very probable at all. Call the floor immediately.

[Iplayragstoo]

I actually saw a turny run this way at the Grand in Tunica. It was half holdem, half omaha...changed every 30 minutes, and your partner had to play the other 30 minutes..never seen before it then or since...

[bitznbytz]

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I actually saw a turny run this way at the Grand in Tunica. It was half holdem, half omaha...changed every 30 minutes, and your partner had to play the other 30 minutes..never seen before it then or since...

[/ QUOTE ]

At Lucky Chances in Colma, CA, they have a Partners Limit hold 'em event at each of their semi-annual series of tournaments (Gold Rush and Battle of the Bay). Partners switch to play each level.

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
Tag team hold'em. Once the poker bubble starts to burst, this will be one of ESPN's attempts at rejuvenating the game.

"Tonight's main event: Phil Ivey and Greg Raymer vs. Doyle Brunson and Gus Hansen...winner take all!"

[/ QUOTE ]

That was exactly one of the running jokes the rest of the time - tag team poker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually spoke up and asked everybody to stop play for a second so I could point this out. The new kid (he looked like a kid) said the original player was disqualified, but he'd explain it fully after the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. It's not going any further until this matter is settled right then and there. Perferrably prior to the hand being dealt. What if someone busts out on this hand because of him? The new kid isn't going to be the one who's going to explain it to me. Call the floor immediately.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

It was only my second time playing live at a casino (well, third, but the first was the Luxor $25 tourney last year, which I don't count), and honestly, I wasn't sure what the proper protocol was.

It took me until part way into the hand to figure out what was going on, which is why I didn't speak up sooner. And when the kid said the original player had been DQ'ed, we all accepted the explanation until he elaborated on it after the hand was over.

A few of us would've liked to have seen the player's chips completely forfeited, but we were content with him just getting blinded/anted off.

I couldn't believe the Tournament Director was actually going to let the sub play until we all bitched him out. Out of morbid curiosity, I almost wished the sub busted me just so I could see how Binion's would've handled it when I would've given them hell.

What I don't understand is why they don't card everybody who looks like they may be under 30 or so immediately when they register for the tourney. Seems like an easy, logical, preventative measure.

[dlk9s]

Quick follow-up:

At the final table of the Main Event, I ran into a guy from my table at the aforementioned Binion's tourney. He said he played at Imperial Palace the next today and saw the underaged guy walk into the tourney along with his "sub" friend. The guy who spotted them informed the Tournament Director and they were asked to leave. I assume they were ID'd and couldn't produce them. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PhatCasino]

anyone wanna point out that all the dealers in binons look like they belong in a mental ward??

[dlk9s]

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anyone wanna point out that all the dealers in binons look like they belong in a mental ward??

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine all *looked* normal, but two of them sucked at dealing. The other two were good. Unfortunately, I only survived long enough to experience four dealers.

[beetyjoose]

Does anyone else think this is not that big of a deal? Obviously, it seems strange to me that Binion's wouldn't just elimnate the player from the torny, forfeit his entry and toss him out as soon as they realized he was under-age.

But does it really matter that much if someone else plays for him? I understand your comparison about getting a better player midway through the torny, but i don't really see how in this case it really affects the game. You still need to beat multiple players to win the tournament; some good, some bad. I just don't see how this one kid is going to alter the game that significantly.

The only thing I could think of, was if someone had a good read on the original guy and now he was gone. But since you hadn't mentioned that, I suppose it wasn't a concern of yours.