$109s - 9 Handed AJs Push With 10BB

[Unarmed]

Auto?
Insta even?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t819)
BB (t1695)
UTG (t1560)
UTG+1 (t975)
MP1 (t936)
MP2 (t843)
MP3 (t925)
CO (t1247)
Hero (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t100, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t100, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1000 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">

[Phil Van Sexton]

Standard for me.

[durron597]

How common has limping been at this table?

Aw f it. Insta push.

[wiggs73]

Yeah, I push this in a heartbeat.

[citanul]

intant push.

for some reason in spots like these where it's real clear i'm going to take it down without a flop unless the blinds wake up huge, i feel like a pirate.

citanul

[mlagoo]

haha.

i agree that its a push.

9 handed at level 4 is kind of rough. i always get annoyed in situations like that.

[willbb99]

auto-push

[citanul]

http://dbw.ca.gov/AquaSmart/html/images/pirate.jpg

that's going to be my new answer to PVS questions, easy steal questions, etc.

citanul

[Vee Quiva]

Excuse my ignorance, but

Why exactly is this an insta push?

Is it because he's at 10x the blind?

What if he had 1300 in chips, is it still a push?

[citanul]

his hand figures to be massively better than any of the limpers the majority of the time, as well as far ahead of the probable blinds hands. it's not very likely a small pair or mid pair will call him here, and he can increase his stack by &gt;30% by taking down this pot.

citanul

ps: with 1300 i would not push here.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]

ps: with 1300 i would not push here.

[/ QUOTE ]
alright, now we have something to talk about. I'm pushing with 1300 still, although that definitly does not mean that its right. I think that its still worth the 350 chips in the middle. What are you doing with 1300 citanul, limping?

[curtains]

I believe I would push as well with 1300, although sometimes I play differently while reading than while actually playing.

[citanul]

meh, nah, looking at it again, i'd push here with 1300 too.

citanul

[lastchance]

Unless you have some kind of great read on the limpers,

POOOSH!

[the shadow]

[ QUOTE ]
. . . sometimes I play differently while reading than while actually playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I "play" much better while reading than while actually playing.

The Shadow

[Irieguy]

I'd limp, expecting the SB to push with a very wide range because of his chip position and the desperate state this SNG is about to reach (a la PVS). Then I'd call if I could race him HU. If one of the other limpers calls, i'd fold.

When you end up 9-handed in level 4, the play tends to get a little funky. MP1 limper is more likely to have a hand than he would be in levels 1-3, and CO limper almost certainly doesn't have boo. Your limp is just bait for the shortish SB and I'd love to race his range with AJs under the circumstances of this SNG. Also, there's a reasonable chace that either MP1 has you beat, or that the BB will wake up with a hand. The combined possibility of those considerations makes it marginally worthwhile to allow yourself a chance to avoid going broke with AJs, 9-handed in level 4. That is... if the SB pushes and either the BB, MP1 or both call and a big hand is revealed; you'd be correct to pat yourself on the back for resisting the temptation to simply push at a pot that isn't all that significant when the the action reaches you at first.

Also, if it somehow does get checked around, I wouldn't hate seeing a flop from the button with AJs and that preflop action.

So, I'd say pushing is fine... but it's not how I would play it.

Irieguy

[rydazzle]

I push unless Ive seen MP1 limp with a monster b4...limping in his position and stack seems fishy w/o a read. crap, even if I'd seen that I'd probably still push...

[Vee Quiva]

Just for fun I ran the following on pokerstove.
I gave the blinds random hands. I gave the 2 limpers normal limping hands including the possibility of limping with high pocket pairs(admittedly not very likely).

Ace Jack suited was a 31% favorite to win the hand. So how much fold % do you guys think is appropriate here?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Just for fun I ran the following on pokerstove.
I gave the blinds random hands. I gave the 2 limpers normal limping hands including the possibility of limping with high pocket pairs(admittedly not very likely).

Ace Jack suited was a 31% favorite to win the hand. So how much fold % do you guys think is appropriate here?

[/ QUOTE ]

AJs is a 31% favorite to win the hand... means what? Against who, what? huh?

citanul

[45suited]

This is what I mean when I say I have problems with the way people use SNGPT. (Granted this was a pokerstove example.) Garbage in, garbage out. Was he really trying to say that AJs wins this hand only 31% of the time?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
This is what I mean when I say I have problems with the way people use SNGPT. (Granted this was a pokerstove example.) Garbage in, garbage out. Was he really trying to say that AJs wins this hand only 31% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the main problem here is that the post was unintelligible. As far as I can see, the poster found the likelihood that AJs wins if called by both blinds and both limpers, having put them on some range. Who knows.

citanul

[45suited]

Okay, just another ridiculous theoretical example again, like a "fold aces pre-flop" thread. I don't really think that I need Pokerstove to know that if our AJs push gets called in 4 spots, our chances aren't good.

Of course, that ignores the entire point of pushing and has no relevance to the thought process for the hand.

[Vee Quiva]

Sorry, I was gone for a few days and didn't get a chance to follow up.

I used Poker Stove to see how much of a favorite AJ is against a probable range of hands for the two callers and two random hands for the blinds. This is a starting point and obviously not the whole solution.

My question is (which you failed to read at the bottom)is how much fold equity would you add to this hand to do the math on figuring out if this is a smart play?

When you assign a percentage of fold equity, then you can use ICM and do a EV calculation.

[Scuba Chuck]

Irieguy, I like your line very well here. In my experience, when there's this many people left on level 4, the initial limper has a high potential for a racing hand, like AJ+/88+. They know it's tight, and they want/need to double up. Anything to get some action is their thinking.

Furthermore, the thought about the SB is very keen. Good point.

Scuba

[curtains]

You would need to have a gun to my head to stop me from moving allin preflop here.

[J-Lo]

What if the limper had the same stack size, but was UTG? HOw short would u have to be to push?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
What if the limper had the same stack size, but was UTG? HOw short would u have to be to push?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd shove no metter where he was. If he has a monster, then good for him. He won't most of the time and my hand is too strong to muck.