Help I'm a Beginner at Dealers Choice

[maybedinero]

The background: I've signed up to GamesGrid for their massive 1000% bonus. But it clears too slowly in Hold 'em because of the way that it is set up (it's based on the size of a rake in any hand in which you were dealt cards), so I'm trying to play a lot on the Dealer's Choice table, which has plenty of big pots at $1/$2 level and is ideal for this purpose.

The problem: I don't know much about some of the games. In particular, Razz and Seven Card Stud Hi-Lo (though the latter is great for people building up a big pot). Can anyone give me a hand with starting hand strategy in particular for these two games?

[OrianasDaad]

I don't know the answer to your question.

The "Books/Publications" forums will point out what books will be helpful. I believe that Sklansky has a chapter on Razz in one of his books, while 2+2 has at least one quality text (so far, they've all been quality) focusing on 7-stud.

A search of the "Other Poker" forum might also help you.

[AKQJ10]

http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/Books

I admit, your post reminded me to add some of the Razz and Stud 8/b content. And don't be scared off from the Hellmuth book -- the razz and stud material are a million times better than the hold 'em! Although if you're really serious about those games, the Sklasky and Zee books are the way to go.

[maybedinero]

Thanks I got the book and it looks like it contains a fair amount of useful info on the games I mentioned. Most of the bad reviews of the book seem to be concentrating on the hold 'em sections.

BTW, you can visit my poker blog at http://maybedinero.blogspot.com

[bholdr]

wow. i must be bored, because i thought this was gonna be a short one, and it turned out to be very long... this should be what you're looking for. maybe sheridancat ot AKQJ10 will add it to the FAQ or the wiki...

Players that don't know how to play stud/8 and razz get eaten alive in those games, it's critical to have an understanding of basic strategy in order to be successful. the best thing to do is read the books. I'd reccomend the supersystem section, for stud/8, you really should get HLSP (high low split poker) by zee, especially since it is half omaha/8, half stud/8, and i assume both of those geames get played in the dealer's choice games.

here's some basics that will keep you from losing your shirt:

general

In both stud/8 and razz, it's important to remember that THIS IS NOT HOLDEM. there are major differences that one must account for, primarily:

-dead cards. in any stud game you have a lot more info at your disposal, namely, tyhe dead cards. keep tack of the cards that have been shown and you will have a HUGE advantage over the other players. it's very difficult to remember each and every card, so concentrate on remembering those cards that either you or your opponents may have needed- straight cards, flush cards, dead low cards, etc... i cannot stress enough how important this is.

-fluid position. in stud, position is apt to change with each round of play. keep in mind that raising for a free card when you are in late position may backfire if you pair off and are suddenly in first position. experience alone will help you understand position in stud games, it's very difficult.

Stud/8- because most low limit stud players are too loose, you can beat that game by simply playing much tighter than your opponents- that'll be the basis of your strategy.

the best hands in stud 8 are (in order):
rolled trips (555, 999)
pair of aces with a low card (AA2)
three to a low straight flush
three to a low straight or flush (2/images/graemlins/spade.gif3/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/spade.gif or 2 3 4)
three low cards with an ace (like A26, A47)
high pairs (KK and QQ, preferably buried with a low doorcard)
low pairs with an ace (like 44A, A66)

don't play anything else until you have some experience. here are the big ones- if you follow this advice closely and don't get cute, you should crush 1/2 stud/8:

-first and foremost, PLAY TO SCOOP. you want the WHOLE POT. hands that have two way potential can be played much more strongly than one way hands, even if you're behind in one or both directions.

-do not draw to second best hands, if you're drawing to a low, be sure that it will be the best low if you make it. don't draw to a straight when someone else looks to be drawing to a flush, etc. the exception is if you're playing for both ends. if you have a low straight drwa to an 8 high straight, and there appears to be a flush draw and a better low draw out there, go ahhead and play, maybe even get very aggressive and try to knock out one of the others.

-some hands do better heads up, while others do much better multiway. big draws to low straights and flushes like big multiway pots. Pairs, aces, kings, queend, and low pairs with an ace, do better heads up- try to thin the feild with strategic raises on third and fourth- remember, you want the WHOLE POT.

-simalarly, use raises throughout the hand to knock out other hands if a good oppurtunity arises. you really want to knock out the low draws if you're going high (so you can win the whole pot) but it's also very important to raise to knock out other draws going the same way as you. if you have a high pair and someone else appears to be drawing at a straight, make 'em call two bets for the privalage.

-remember that until it is made, even a good low draw (such as 2347) is behind even a pair of queens or kings. you don't want to be heads up against a high hand if you only have a draw to half the pot. fopld and save some BBs. once it is made however, you will often be free rolling for the high end- be very aggressive and try to get the WHOLE POT.

-as with all poker games, be tight, be aggressive. check-raising and three betting are very important in stud /8. the pots should be jammed a lot if there are good players at the table- don't be afraid to jam them yourself if you feel that you have a lock for one way or both.

-slowplaying is generally a very bad idea in a loose stud/8 game. don't do it unless you have a high rolled set or another real monster (i'd slow play a wheel unless it looks like flush draws or trips are out there). NO FREE CARDS- no free cards, no free cards. take em if you need them, but never give them out, especially on fifth.

-the ability to read hands and analyze opponents and their stratigies is, imo, more important in stud/8 than any other form of poker. experience will help- concentrate first on deciding weather a player is going high or low- it can be very deceptive sometimes.

-be tight be aggressive, play good hands and play 'em hard. PLAY FOR SCOOP.

Razz

Razz is primarily a game of catching cards. it's true! there is a ton of luck in razz, but there is nothing as profitable as a loose razz game. many players think of razz as simply a game of betting the best low on board and calling and trying to pull good cards. to some degree this is true, but if you play TAG and understand a couple of basic concepts (that your opponents do not) you will have far the best of it.

-to start with, don't playing anything with any card higher than a 7. just don't. raise if you feel you're ahead. The exception would be if you have the lowest door card and decent cards in the hole- if you're showing a ten and are looking at a bunch of paint, raise that mother.

-remember that a made 8 is ahead of a perfectly smooth draw like 2345 on fifth. you're behind, call only if pot odds warrant.

-a hand like 34622 is behind 35678, but ahead of 46789. in each case, the other hand will likely bet, since he can clearly see that he is currently ahead. in the first case, he is, and it's a marginal pot odds call, while in the second he is ahead right now, but you are the money favorite, so a raise is in order (his bet appears corect to him but is really a big mistake- this is where a lot of your razz profits will come from). the best way to get a feel for situations like those is to go to two dimes or pokerstove and run a bunch of sims.

-no free cards!

-razz is sometimes played duece to seven. remember that youy can get counterfeited by a straight- be sure to take that into account.

-learn to recognize the nuts, which can often be clearly seen in razz. bet 'em if you get 'em.

-if i was in a dealer's choice game and i thought my oppomnents didn't unerstand razz well at all, i'd pick it every time, even though it's far from my best game.


GL. this should be enough to crush a 1/2 game, especially if the players in the game weren't expecting to be playing razz and stud/8.

[SheridanCat]

Thanks, bholdr, I'll put this on the wiki. I hope you don't mind if I massage the format and some of the capitalization to fit the format.

Thanks.

T

Edit: Okay, it's up but still needs some editing. Thanks again, bholdr, this really fills out those sections.

[maybedinero]

Thanks for all that info--great digestible supplement to the book.