Sure enough to fold?

[MrOnizuka]

UB 1/2

Im in the BB with A10o, table seems mostly passive but fairly tight. 2 other limpers and I check

Flop comes:
A 2 8 rainbow. SB checks, I bet, 1 fold, LP calls and SB calls as well.

Turn is a rainbow completing 3, SB bets out, I raise, LP calls, SB 3 bets. Getting 9 to 1, I think, closing the action.

Time to fold this baby?

[einbert]

Why did you raise the turn?

[sy_or_bust]

Depends on your outs. At worst, you could be reverse dominated and drawing to 3 tens or drawing dead to a set. The threat of reverse domination is so large that I would rarely raise this turn, and never without a read on SB's donkbet tendencies. You can't know LP will call 2 cold, and without any big draws on board I want to call down.

You want to raise in spots like this when your hand is a little better, and your opponent's range a little worse, and especially with draws on the board. In this situation the range of hands aren't very large, and shutting out LP isn't such a priority.

[MrOnizuka]

On the turn I felt that I should raise, as if I call then aren't I basically comitting myself to calling down unimproved the rest of the hand? This seems like it's leaving some value out there with A-OK kicker on this board. I'd also hate to have it raised and called behind me where I wouldn't have any real idea of where I stood.

Also I felt that LP flop caller might have an A and have been waiting for the turn to raise in a pot where on the flop it looked like a blind taking a shot at a fairly dry board. With the raise, he'd probably just call with even AK and I end up getting more in when I'm ahead of a medium ace and the same in as if he raised the turn and I called down and he has me out kicked. If the LP 3-bets for some reason I'd be done with the hand anyways.

The SB's 3bet really lowers the number of outs I can realistically have, and I'm probably drawing to 3 outs getting 10.5-1 and not closing the action.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I felt that I should raise, as if I call then aren't I basically comitting myself to calling down unimproved the rest of the hand? This seems like it's leaving some value out there with A-OK kicker on this board. I'd also hate to have it raised and called behind me where I wouldn't have any real idea of where I stood.

[/ QUOTE ]Problem is you're not folding a better hand and a worse hand isn't calling. You're raising a probable second best hand to improve someone else's pot.

[W. Deranged]

I think your reasoning for a turn raise is flawed. I would often raise the turn here almost automatically, but I think it's not a great idea here.

The donk-bet, particularly at the lower ends of the SS ladder, may simply be a straight up indication of two pair. You may well be behind here. Not that you certainly shouldn't call down; folding would be bad. I think you simply need to reevaluate what you are going to do with the hand.

1. Your hand is not that vulnerable to draws. Most opponents will be drawing to 5 outs or less. You'd like to protect your hand but I don't think it is the most important factor in this decision.

2. You may have more outs than you figure. If your opponent made a junk two pair (not aces up) you have lots of counterfeit outs.

3. I think you are overthinking your reads in relation to the player behind you. You've described one possibility for what he's doing. But in SS, you must realize he could be doing something that doesn't make any sense. Save the level 3 thinking for clearer situations and more familiar players.

4. The LP players overcall may be a decent thing here. Overcall reasoning (namely, you'd rather get LP's big bet by calling than get SBs big bet by raising and opening up to a three-bet) may apply here. Since his outs might be pretty thin I would lean toward letting him come in behind.

5. Assuming no raise from LP, you can see a showdown for the same price as the raise here, and you don't run the risk of having to make a tough turn fold.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
UB 1/2

[/ QUOTE ]I think, in general, $1/$2 is considered micro-limits (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=micro).

No big deal; just wanted you to know for future posts.
-Sam