How to make more money with TPTK [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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David04

07-14-2005, 11:40 PM

Every time I flop TPTK something that looks like this happens....

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($11.75)
BB ($9.90)
UTG ($5.29)
UTG+1 ($4.90)
MP1 ($3.45)
MP2 ($11.80)
Hero ($4.05)
Button ($14.76)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.5, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.40, MP1 calls $0.40.

Flop: ($2.05) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $1, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $2.05

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($20.75)
SB ($10.75)
BB ($4.70)
UTG ($17.95)
UTG+1 ($3.95)
MP1 ($3.65)
MP2 ($4.45)
MP3 ($15.60)
Hero ($5.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.4, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.30.

Flop: ($0.95) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.95, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $.95

Obviously, I would rather win these small pots than build a huge pot and lose, but I would also like to extract more value from TPTK. What is your standard line with TPTK? Any comments on the above hands?

kongo_totte

07-14-2005, 11:48 PM

You don't make money with TPTK, you pick up a small pot or lose a big one. The only way to make money with TPTK is if an opponent misplays his hand (i.e. chases with improper odds, overplays TP2K etc).

P.S. bet more on hand 1.

PS2. Also, make sure you raise other hands than those who make TPTK (or over pair) once in a while, and make sure you sometimes (often) bet missed flops aswell (vs. 2 or less opponents)

David04

07-14-2005, 11:56 PM

I almost always make continuation bets, unless a lot of players called my raise or Villian is someone whom I have noted as a calling station and will call down with any piece of the board.

kongo_totte

07-15-2005, 12:00 AM

Good. Then your bets should get as much folding when you have TPTK as when you have nothin/over cards. And since you complain that people are folding too much when you have TPTK, they are very likely too be folding just as much when you have missed overs.

David04

07-15-2005, 12:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good. Then your bets should get as much folding when you have TPTK as when you have nothin/over cards. And since you complain that people are folding too much when you have TPTK, they are very likely too be folding just as much when you have missed overs.

[/ QUOTE ]
That makes sense, I just wanted to check to make sure I wasn't doing something fundamentally wrong.

kongo_totte

07-15-2005, 12:08 AM

Don't worry.

srm80

07-15-2005, 12:10 AM

keep betting AK like you do and hope somebody has a K, which they will usually go all the way with at those limits.

Alex/Mugaaz

07-15-2005, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
make sure you sometimes (often) bet missed flops aswell (vs. 2 or less opponents)

[/ QUOTE ]

No.
Sometimes = uncommonly = not often.

srm80

07-15-2005, 12:46 AM

i agree with alex, often when you bet your missed flop with AK, somebody will call you if they hit any part of the board, low pair, a small pocker pair, even if there is a 10 or a J on board, and you will be wondering what they have, so you check the turn and try to bluff the river but they still call with any part of the board. That's the way it is at the low limits, so in order to save money I rarely bluff unless I know there is a good chance of a fold. Which there is hardly a chance anyone folds with any part of the board. People never believe that you have them beat so they will call if they have anything that can beat a bluff. I make it a habit to showdown my strong hands, in order to make my raises a little more believable. you don't want people to start taking shots at you after they see you are betting unimproved AK

srm80

07-15-2005, 12:48 AM

tricky play doesn't really pay off at the .05/.10 or .10/.25, or even .25/.50 in my experience, which is short. I try to play a straightforward game and semi-bluff more with strong draws to get free cards.

kongo_totte

07-15-2005, 01:05 AM

Well, I play mostly at Party NL50 (home of the weak tight). Atleast there a continuation bet picks up the pot 70%+ (on a suitable board) of the time and you soon learn who you should not continue bet against. Also, if you don't continue bet you'll be very easy to read and you'll make even less with TPTK.

ajmargarine

07-15-2005, 01:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i agree with alex, often when you bet your missed flop with AK, somebody will call you if they hit any part of the board, low pair, a small pocker pair, even if there is a 10 or a J on board, and you will be wondering what they have, so you check the turn and try to bluff the river but they still call with any part of the board. That's the way it is at the low limits, so in order to save money I rarely bluff unless I know there is a good chance of a fold. Which there is hardly a chance anyone folds with any part of the board. People never believe that you have them beat so they will call if they have anything that can beat a bluff. I make it a habit to showdown my strong hands, in order to make my raises a little more believable. you don't want people to start taking shots at you after they see you are betting unimproved AK

[/ QUOTE ]

This has to be limit specific advice, for the lowest low limits. This is weak and muddled thinking /images/graemlins/confused.gif if you are playing above a .50 BB. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

srm80

07-15-2005, 01:19 AM

haven't played above a .50 BB, and since I've been playing at the lower limits it's very hard to bluff people who have caught a piece of the board.

fimbulwinter

07-15-2005, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
make sure you sometimes (often) bet missed flops aswell (vs. 2 or less opponents)

[/ QUOTE ]

No.
Sometimes = uncommonly = not often.

[/ QUOTE ]

worst = advice = ever

fim

ajmargarine

07-15-2005, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if you don't continue bet you'll be very easy to read and you'll make even less with TPTK.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the point here. You want them to call you down with second pair when you have TPTK. After they find themselves 2nd best enough to TPTK, your continuation bets and bluffs take down the pots right there, even when they have a piece. And then when they find you are bluffing once, they go back to calling you when you have TPTK or better. It's a tangled web.

The key is to pick your spots and to avoid doing it on certain boards.