Online money management/bankroll

[AZK]

This is a spark off another thread, I used to play online to kill time rather than seriously, so I never really worried about money on site. I have since become much more serious. After getting my account locked with a good portion of my total roll on site (it was later reopened), I've realized the need to manage my money better. I primarily a NL player, so we go buy buyins rather than 300xBB or whatever.

What do most of you do to prevent having a considerable amount of money on one site? Keep 5 buyins on site and the rest in neteller? Multiple sites? Off neteller and in an actual bank... etc...

With live poker, it was always easy: sock drawer or casino box, online it's a little harder for me. Thanks.

[Toddster18]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a spark off another thread, I used to play online to kill time rather than seriously, so I never really worried about money on site. I have since become much more serious. After getting my account locked with a good portion of my total roll on site (it was later reopened), I've realized the need to manage my money better. I primarily a NL player, so we go buy buyins rather than 300xBB or whatever.

What do most of you do to prevent having a considerable amount of money on one site? Keep 5 buyins on site and the rest in neteller? Multiple sites? Off neteller and in an actual bank... etc...

With live poker, it was always easy: sock drawer or casino box, online it's a little harder for me. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I try to keep about 8 buy-ins per site that I am frequently playing on (4-tabling on), and keep the rest in neteller. When the balance gets uneccessarily high on any given site, pop it into neteller.

-Todd

[grouchie]

i pretty much put about 8-10 buy ins on the site I am currently playing. The rest in sitting in netteller currently.

When my roll gets large enough, then I will transfer some to ING or Emigrant and let it build up some interest, but currently there is no need for that as i'm just a small stake bonus whoring putz who is trying to do better than break even.

[TheMetetron]

My current bankroll is around $30,000.

About $8,000 of that is tied up in casinos.

About $3,000 of that is on poker sites for $5/10 SH.

About $9,000 of that is sitting in Neteller.

And about $10,000 is in ING Direct and/or cash.


Hope that helps.

[TheHammer24]

My bankroll is generally tied up in various sites. I keep about 7 buyins persite. I send it to NETeller when I'm done. And take it from NETeller to my Checking account when NETeller builds. From Checking to Savings.

[BigF]

[ QUOTE ]
My current bankroll is around $30,000.

About $8,000 of that is tied up in casinos.

About $3,000 of that is on poker sites for $5/10 SH.

About $9,000 of that is sitting in Neteller.

And about $10,000 is in ING Direct and/or cash.


Hope that helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why you leave 9 grand in Neteller. 2 grand should be more than enough for bonus whoring.

[TheMetetron]

Just got paid by a bunch of casinos, I'm going to cash some of that out to cash, like to leave at least 5k in there for bonuses that may pop up at a moments notice.

[Nigel]

How can bonus whoring even be worth it with a $30k bankroll and a good rakeback deal?

Nigel

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I keep 15 buyins in on the site.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
How can bonus whoring even be worth it with a $30k bankroll and a good rakeback deal?

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't seen the way I bonus whore.

Last month was $9,000. Up to $3,000 this month. And I've been doing this for at least 6 months now... and no I don't have gnomes.

I don't whore full time, but I do get an hour or two in a day. It's a good distraction and I do it by using very large bets which cuts down the time and inceases EV. I can handle the variance.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep 5 buyins on site and the rest in neteller?

[/ QUOTE ]
It depends on how many tables you play. If you play one, then five buyins seems fine. If you play four, then it seems like there is no way having only one more buyin "in your pocket" when you start your session can be a safe amount.

[TheMetetron]

You do realize Neteller to poker client is pretty instantaneous.

[theben]

i try to keep a large chunk of my BR in a real bank. then i keep the rest in either neteller or a site w/ a good rep. if its a new site, i wont keep as much in cause i'll be less comfortable

[Cerril]

My progression pretty much amounts to my 300-500BB kept online, excess (unless I'm in the process of growing my bankroll) to my interest checking account, checking goes to various funds (IRA or the like). I don't bother keeping much in a savings account since rates are so low.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
You do realize Neteller to poker client is pretty instantaneous.

[/ QUOTE ]
I find it pain to have to deal with putting money in through neteller while I am playing. I get distracted enough without adding something else that can be easily avoid if I keep enough on the site for the current session. This will be a larger amount if you are playing more tables (because when you are winning on one table, you can't transfer the money to a table where you are losing, so you have to reload from your account instead).

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My current bankroll is around $30,000.

About $8,000 of that is tied up in casinos.

About $3,000 of that is on poker sites for $5/10 SH.

About $9,000 of that is sitting in Neteller.

And about $10,000 is in ING Direct and/or cash.


Hope that helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why you leave 9 grand in Neteller. 2 grand should be more than enough for bonus whoring.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're kidding right?

[B00T]

[ QUOTE ]

Last month was $9,000.

[/ QUOTE ]


Weaksauce...if you didnt get chewed out by Mark, you are not a true casino whore /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[SwordFish]

Hey AZK -

My bankroll is about 30 buyins for the highest limit that I normally play. I have this distributed between four sites and Neteller. I usually have 5-10 buyins on each site and cash out when I go over 10.


SF

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

My entire bankroll is 5300 and it's all on Eurobet. Is that bad?
I've stopped going for bonuses and such, so I keep it all on my main site.

[vilemerchant]

Since you can deposit from neteller instantly back to Eurobet what's the point in risking all your eggs in one basket?

[nervous]

200BB's over 2 sites. Rest in neteller (100BB's only)

I like to cashout, lol.

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

What do you mean by risking?
It's a pretty safe site.

[Freudian]

I have a simple formula. My biggest downswing*1.5. My reasoning is that if I have had horrible luck in the past (and I have) that should be enough to play. And if I drop 1.5*my worst downswing I probably need a day off anyway.

But when you can reload from Neteller in an instant, I would be able to play with much less of course. Sometimes I am a bit lazy when it comes to cashing out so sometimes I have 2-3 times that minimal bankroll before cashing some of it out.

Personally I have started (via Multipoker) to transfer over some money from Neteller to my bank account. Deposit $700, play for a week and cash out what is there. But that is mostly because the value of the dollar is so high at the moment that I want it in my local currency.

[vilemerchant]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean by risking?
It's a pretty safe site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it is, it's my skin of choice now. But things can happen. You know how it is with party - hypothetical situation you win a few big pots in against some maniac who bought in with a stolen CC and suddenly they'll lock up your account for 'chip dumping'. Then you'd have to deal with party investigations via Euro support (both of which are hopeless), it might take em 3 days just to answer your first email and then another week or 2 to convince them you're not a criminal. I'd rather keep what I can in Neteller for sure, just in case I get hungry or something.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How can bonus whoring even be worth it with a $30k bankroll and a good rakeback deal?

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't seen the way I bonus whore.

Last month was $9,000. Up to $3,000 this month. And I've been doing this for at least 6 months now... and no I don't have gnomes.

I don't whore full time, but I do get an hour or two in a day. It's a good distraction and I do it by using very large bets which cuts down the time and inceases EV. I can handle the variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate on this method.

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
Please elaborate on this method.

[/ QUOTE ]

1-Hit a lot of Royal Flushes on video poker.
2-Repeat 1 often.

[xenthebrain]

[ QUOTE ]
I do it by using very large bets which cuts down the time and inceases EV. I can handle the variance.

[/ QUOTE ]
You cannot increase your EV by flat betting large, and not without card counting etc. either.

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
You cannot increase your EV by flat betting large, and not without card counting etc. either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you can. Every time you bust out before meeting Wagering requirements, you are increasing your long term EV.

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My current bankroll is around $30,000.

About $8,000 of that is tied up in casinos.

About $3,000 of that is on poker sites for $5/10 SH.

About $9,000 of that is sitting in Neteller.

And about $10,000 is in ING Direct and/or cash.


Hope that helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why you leave 9 grand in Neteller. 2 grand should be more than enough for bonus whoring.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're kidding right?

[/ QUOTE ]

2k for bonus whoring is absurdly low. I've got about 15k, and thats not enough sometimes.

Freakin

[xenthebrain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You cannot increase your EV by flat betting large, and not without card counting etc. either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you can. Every time you bust out before meeting Wagering requirements, you are increasing your long term EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you explain that?

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. But not now.

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You cannot increase your EV by flat betting large, and not without card counting etc. either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say you were making $25 bets and your standard deviation was $500 (i base these numbers on nothing). With a 300 balance, you can expect your final balance to be between -200 and 800. Obviously, you cannot have a negative balance, so you bust.

Yes you can. Every time you bust out before meeting Wagering requirements, you are increasing your long term EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you explain that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher bet size increases your standard deviation, which increases your chance of busting. If you have 10,000 WR, and you bust out halfway through, you are saving yourself 5,000 of wagering. 5000*.005=25. So by busting out, you saved yourself $25.

The fact that you busted is not factored into EV, because it is just variance..

Freakin

[Entity]

Right now:

$2k in bank.
$4k in Eurobet.
$5500 in Neteller.

I'm planning on moving another $2k or so to the bank so I can get some interest.

Rob

[Nigel]

For you guys that keep part of your bankroll in the bank, at what point does that no longer feel like it's part of your bankroll. How do you differentiate between that and savings?

Once I get my money offline, it no longer really feels like part of my bankroll, because getting it back in to a poker account would be only slightly less complicated than, for example, selling one of my cars to get money back in to a poker account.

Therefore, I actually find it very difficult to "save" money and tend to just let everything accumulate online in my bankroll if it's in excess of my living expenses.

Nigel

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please elaborate on this method.

[/ QUOTE ]

1-Hit a lot of Royal Flushes on video poker.
2-Repeat 1 often.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed a step.
1-Set coin size to $1
2-Hit a lot of Royal Flushes on Video Poker
3-Repeat

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
For you guys that keep part of your bankroll in the bank, at what point does that no longer feel like it's part of your bankroll. How do you differentiate between that and savings?

Once I get my money offline, it no longer really feels like part of my bankroll, because getting it back in to a poker account would be only slightly less complicated than, for example, selling one of my cars to get money back in to a poker account.

Therefore, I actually find it very difficult to "save" money and tend to just let everything accumulate online in my bankroll if it's in excess of my living expenses.

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a separate bank account with 3% interest that I use solely for bankroll accumulation. It just doesn't make sense to keep it all in Neteller.

Rob

[Nigel]

Rob,

Is this the ING(sp?) account I hear about so often? If so, is this easy to get back in to Neteller/Poker accounts if needed, and is the money safer there than in Neteller?

Thanks,

Nigel

[Freakin]

The money is MUCH safer than neteller. ING is FDIC insured up to 100 or 200k. You can set up Neteller to draw directly from ING if you want, or go ING-->Checking-->Neteller

Freakin

[Nigel]

So if you needed $10k from ING to Neteller, how long does this transfer take? Is it instantaneous?

Thanks,

Nigel

[Freakin]

No. If you're doing ING-->Neteller, it would be a standard EFT time. If you're doing ING-->Checking-->Neteller, it would be two standard EFT times.

freakin

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How can bonus whoring even be worth it with a $30k bankroll and a good rakeback deal?

Nigel

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't seen the way I bonus whore.

Last month was $9,000. Up to $3,000 this month. And I've been doing this for at least 6 months now... and no I don't have gnomes.

I don't whore full time, but I do get an hour or two in a day. It's a good distraction and I do it by using very large bets which cuts down the time and inceases EV. I can handle the variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate on this method.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just ignore him. He likes to brag whenever posible. $3000 a month is certainly possible, but $9000 is not, in the long run at least. He obviously either had some positive variance or came across a once-a-year type bonus. Or maybe he's counting his "earnings" from the site he spammed here.

Anyway, there is no simple method. Research what bonuses are out there and learn the appropriate methods for exploiting them. If you spend a week reading the archives at bonuswhores, you'll be well on your way.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
For you guys that keep part of your bankroll in the bank, at what point does that no longer feel like it's part of your bankroll. How do you differentiate between that and savings?

[/ QUOTE ]

My bankroll is basically how much I can lose before I throw up.

[TheMetetron]

That's $3,000 in the first 15 days of this month without any royals and includs about $1,500 in sticky bonuses that I busted (I've cashed none this month).

Last month, did include a $4,000 royal, however.

I'd say $5,000 a month is very easily attainable. You really just need to do your homework. Of course, I do some high risk casinos as well and it has bitten me in the ass a few times, but that is added in.

And no, any money I make from my web site is separate from my casino whoring and my bankroll.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Or maybe he's counting his "earnings" from the site he is spending over $20,000 this year to advertise.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP. And no, as I previously stated, I'm not.

[PokerBob]

I play 5/10 6max online and typically 15/30 live. I will be a "pro" in 2 weeks. I have $4,600 at a poker site, $7,000 in Neteller (which I think I'm gonna remove) and $5,600 in a cardroom box. The swings at 6max can be large, so I will likely keep 8 - 10,000 in neteller and poker sites combined.

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or maybe he's counting his "earnings" from the site he is spending over $20,000 this year to advertise.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP. And no, as I previously stated, I'm not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you claiming you never spammed your site here?

And maybe if you kept your damn site updated you wouldn't have to spend so much on advertising. People are gonna be pissed when they get screwed by your lack of updates.

Freakin

[TheMetetron]

It was spammed and I do neglect the level 3+ bonuses more than I should. I'm saying it isnt' anymore. And everything will be getting a nice update today.

[VegasVixen]

[ QUOTE ]
For you guys that keep part of your bankroll in the bank, at what point does that no longer feel like it's part of your bankroll. How do you differentiate between that and savings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple, use a separate bank account. Poker only. Then I use this $$ for anything poker-related: trips to casinos, local tournies, Vegas trips etc.

This acct is linked to my Neteller for online gaming, and has an ATM card for quick access to gambling cash if i need it.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
That's $3,000 in the first 15 days of this month without any royals and includs about $1,500 in sticky bonuses that I busted (I've cashed none this month).

Last month, did include a $4,000 royal, however.

I'd say $5,000 a month is very easily attainable. You really just need to do your homework. Of course, I do some high risk casinos as well and it has bitten me in the ass a few times, but that is added in.

And no, any money I make from my web site is separate from my casino whoring and my bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, an EV of $5000 a month is attainable in the short-run, say for 6 months. If you've been doing this for more than 6 months and still have an average monthly EV of $5000, you're using gnomes. However, you haven't been doing this very long, so you won't be keeping up that rate.

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, an EV of $5000 a month is attainable in the short-run, say for 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?. I seriously question that there are $30,000 ev per ID out there in reputable casinos. Maybe I need to take another look.

[BluEsiNsOuL]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, an EV of $5000 a month is attainable in the short-run, say for 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that include some kind of high roller bonus? What is the bank roll requirement?

I also suggest to read the bonuswhore.com archive, it is very helpful.

[jman220]

I keep at any given point about five buyins on the site that I'm playing at, and then an additional 15 more on neteller. You don't need more than 5 buyins if your'e only 4-tabling, because if you ever drop below enough to do it, you can just instantly get cash from neteller, and your money is definitely safer on neteller than in an online casino. On the off chance that you lose 20 buy ins, you almost certainly need to take a break anyway, and you can always get more money into your neteller account within a few days anyway. (I play $100 nl, 6-max btw, if I played higher, I think I would probably keep even less on neteller, maybe 10 buyins).

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, an EV of $5000 a month is attainable in the short-run, say for 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?. I seriously question that there are $30,000 ev per ID out there in reputable casinos. Maybe I need to take another look.

[/ QUOTE ]

For pure signup bonuses, it comes close to that number. When you factor in monthly reloads (about $5000 EV/year), juicy reloads (there have been two I know of this year that had a mid-four-digit EV) and other perks ($250 gift cards from Memolink, etc), $30K can definitely be surpassed.

Again, this is all in my experience. Maybe others really are somehow finding twice as much EV as me, but I doubt it.

-- Homer

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, an EV of $5000 a month is attainable in the short-run, say for 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that include some kind of high roller bonus? What is the bank roll requirement?

I also suggest to read the bonuswhore.com archive, it is very helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what your definition of high-roller bonus is, but I would say that you don't have to do any to achieve this EV. The largest you have to do are deposits in the $500 range for the large sticky bonuses. I've done a few larger ones (32Red - £1000/£300 with a minimum bet size of £50), but they aren't required to achieve this rate.

There really are more casinos out there than you think. For me this year, my average cashout has been around $150 profit (~150 bonuses). So, for a minute just assume that is the average EV of a bonus. To get $5000 every month for 6 months, you'd have to do 33 bonuses/month, or about 1/day. In 6 months, that would be 200 casinos. Seems about right to me that there are 200 whorable casinos out there. You just have to dig deeper than Starluck/Planetluck/CoN. There really is more research time involved than actual play. The other day I played a £100/100/800 sticky at a site I had never seen mentioned, where the best game allowed was a Hi-Lo game with a 5% HA. Not the greatest bonus, but it had EV.

-- Homer

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean by risking?
It's a pretty safe site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scumbag x steals a credit card. Buys $1,000 online. Plays poker like a maniac. He sits at your table. You make a mint off him because he keeps going all in against you with 2/7 offsuit against your wired pairs and AK. Eurobet freezes your account because you were involved in a scheme to launder money from stolen credit card. You protest but they don't believe you. You forfeit your $4,500 roll. Its a worst case scenario, but it certainly is possible, and it happenned to the op.

[bly]

I'm a NL player.. I generally play 8 tables, 4 at empire and 4 at intertops

5 buy ins at EP
5 buy ins at Intertops
5 buy ins min to 10 max at neteller for bonus whoring and bank roll backup.

If I get over 10 buy ins at neteller I start moving money to my local bank accounts. Now that I'm a royal member at EP I'm going to have to have 1g in my neteller account the first of everything month so I can bonus whore that 100.

PP and eurobet accounts are empty, only use them if whoring.

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Point taken. I'm gonna keep most of it at Neteller. Any security issues that I should be aware of in doing so?
I was thinking keeping 5 buy-ins in Eurobet, so 500 bucks for NL100. And the rest (4800) in Neteller, sounds good? Watcha guys think?
Oh and thanks for the sound advice. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

EDIT: This is gonna work out pretty good actually. I always feel like playing some Party tournaments but I hate the delays in transfering back and forth, so it'll be good to have most of my funds available instantly.