Fundametalist Poker Players

[malorum]

Further to bluffthis' recent thread, I thought I'd be more specific in my question.

I am intrigued that there are so many religious posters (In particular conservative christians and Jews - yes you BossJJ and not ready)
The reason I am intrigued is that Poker and gambling is generally condemned within both traditions. There are apologetics and defenses available, but the consensus accross both sets of traditions is that Gambling is very bad.
My previous thread on playing dreidel was a light hearted somewhat obscure opener for this serious question.

For me its rather simple. I'm a fundamentalist christian, but Poker plays a critical part in my financial life. I am under no illusions however that my religious perspective condemns this source of income. I can't reconcile the two adequately so I simply get on with my life as saint and sinner (simul justus et peccator).

Most people are not in my experience quite as happy to compartmentalise their lives like this and I imagine some of you religious posters have some interesting defenses for your Gambling antics. I'd like to hear them and engage with them.

BossJJ in particular is asked to give me his conservative Jewish take on why Gambling aint so bad after all.

[drudman]

The "ascetic" (not aesthetic) ideal is a key tenet of many religions, and the Judeo-Christian tradition is no exception. Poverty and altruism are desirable characteristics of the penitent man. Gambooling certainly has no place among these.

[chezlaw]

Anyone who gambles either doesn't believe in god or doesn't believe that god prohibits gambling.

[edit: or rejects god.]

chez

[Darryl_P]

I am rather fundamentalist myself in my beliefs, and mine are closer to Islam which is very strict against gambling. Yet I bet sports and play poker and don't feel I am committing any sort of sin. In fact I feel it is part of two types of jihad -- one of the soul and another of the sword.

The soul part comes from battling the various stereotypes opposing the lifestyle, dealing with fluctuations in the bankroll, and simply having time to reflect on life and reach my inner self all the while with all the challenges that entails.

The sword part is the metaphorical battle against my opponents who are for the most part infidels. If I find out that an opponent of mine shares very similar religious views I will no longer be able to play against him for that would be sinful in my eyes. Of course I don't usually make the effort to find that out and so I may be sinning anyway by not making sure. In sports betting it's easier because I can usually know enough about the bookie to know he's an infidel.

I do not consider my activities gambling according to biblical (implicit) definitions because:

- I know my EV is postive and therefore the usual problems that stem from it do not figure to happen. The Bible and Qur'an assume all gambling is negative EV and have many stories (which are instructive in the negative EV case) about what troubles it can lead to.

- my soul is completely removed from the activity and so I am out of the devil's reach (edit: the jihad part is not removed...I'm referring to typical gambling stuff like "hit me baby one time, etc.")

I am completely at peace with my betting activities and based on all the signs it appears to be God's will.

[malorum]

There are lots of people who believe in God, and yet fail to keep away fromn all the prohibitions they believe he has given.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
There are lots of people who believe in God, and yet fail to keep away fromn all the prohibitions they believe he has given.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are lots of people who say they believe in god and fail to keep all the prohibitions.

Saying is not believing. What makes you think they believe in god?

chez

[BluffTHIS!]

Myself and some other Christians gave our response in the thread about Christianity and gambling which you can find here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=scimathphil&Number=2716105 &page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all) .

[malorum]

ty BT. just the link I was looking for.

[malorum]

As I figured most christian players attempt to Justify their conduct, albeit in a variety of ways.
What about the Jewish take on all this.

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

I am under no illusions however that my religious perspective condemns this source of income


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are a fundamentalist Christian you should be aware of what the Bible says about conscience. If you continue to wilfully commit what you believe to be sin (even if it isn't sinful in itself), you are treading on dangerous ground.

"Whatever is not from faith is sin"

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
As I figured most christian players attempt to Justify their conduct, albeit in a variety of ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read my response in that thread, I don't think you can fairly say it is only self-serving "justification" since I laid out the Catholic Church's teaching on gambling and the conditions in which it is morally wrong, conditions that don't exist for me.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I figured most christian players attempt to Justify their conduct, albeit in a variety of ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read my response in that thread, I don't think you can fairly say it is only self-serving "justification" since I laid out the Catholic Church's teaching on gambling and the conditions in which it is morally wrong, conditions that don't exist for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I read you right, you believe its ok to play poker even though you believe in god because you don't believe that playing poker is prohibited by god.

Anyone out there going to defend playing poker even though they believe in a god that prohibits poker?

chez