KTs - Turn decision after flop is checked around

[Buck_65]

CO is passive and weak, but not all that loose. First hand for MP3, no info on him. I don't have anywhere near a significant number of hands on either of them for their stats to be meaningful, so I won't post them.

(I was actually planning to fold to a bet on the flop if one came, is that just terrible? Should I bet this flop?)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero?

[Nick C]

My usual play would be to bet the flop here.

Edit: Your hand missed the flop pretty badly, but the queen at least gives you something to represent, and it's good for you also that CO is weak.

If called in both places, I'd think about just check-folding the turn unimproved. If called in just one place, I'd lean toward firing again on the turn, hoping (if the caller is the poster, for instance) that my opponent will now drop bottom pair or his gutshot with 85s or his unimproved ace-rag. If he has a flush draw instead, well, hopefully he'll miss on the river and check it down and let me win with my king-high.

[Nick C]

The turn decision is interesting. On the one hand, no one really seems to have anything. On the other hand, it's hard for you to represent a whole lot either.

But I guess a turn bet might represent a hand like TT that was scared of the queen to your opponents. And even if they just think you have AK, they might not re-steal without being able to beat that hand.

I think I like a turn bet.

[Willluck]

I bet the flop here, but the way you played, I think I definately bet that turn. You have a gutter and you may still have the best hand. I /images/graemlins/heart.gif the PFR, BTW!

[callmedonnie]

Bet the flop. If I'm not raised on the flop I'm betting the turn also, especially if flop bet force out one player.

[callmedonnie]

If one player hangs on and misses the heart on river, do you bet again hoping to take it down no showdown? I do sometimes, the less coordinated the board, the better.

[TStoneMBD]

if there is a weak passive player in the hand and an opponent with a random holding i bet this flop. if the limper were loose passive instead i check. after the turn drops id give up on the hand. youre going to get looked up here.

[callmedonnie]

More on MP3. If its his first hand and he's posting there he's liable to have absolutely anything. The fact that he's posting there and not in CO or BB gives us a little reason to discredit. The CO has position so he might no be holding much. (Why he didn't raise there, I don't know but I bet he's weak).

As I said before, I lead out flop. But given the way you played it, lead out turn here. If raised fold, and check river unless you hit a Jack or King.

[TStoneMBD]

i check alot more after missing the flop then i used to in these low limit games. there are so many idiot chasers who peel cards postflop and if its correct to bet the flop then its almost certainly correct to bet the turn when heads up. that is a surefireway to spew some chips.

if the player is bad enough to post from MP and call a raise then hes probably bad enough to call the flop with garbage and many low limit nits will think they have good odds with a second player in while closing the action so they will peel as well.

[Buck_65]

You guys are right, a flop bet would be best. I'm trying to stop auto-betting every flop after a PFR. However, not betting into all of 2 opponents is awful. This is why I post hands, because I suck. Then again, checking really isn't the worst in this spot, either.

Anyway, I bet the turn, so what do I do if it goes MP3 folds, CO raises?

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
...lead out turn here. If raised fold, and check river unless you hit a Jack or King.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
If one player hangs on and misses the heart on river, do you bet again hoping to take it down no showdown? I do sometimes, the less coordinated the board, the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I would usually do with my king-high, ten-kicker is check-fold the river (which will sometimes win the pot when my opponent has a worse hand and doesn't bluff). With a hand like AK, I'd think about check-calling, if I thought there was a good chance my opponent had a missed draw and he was aggressive enough to bluff it if checked to.

Playing unimproved high cards out of position isn't a whole lot of fun. I'm just taking my best guess as to what the best course of action might be, most of the time.

Part of the reason I've only taken tentative steps into the 6-max games so far is that I don't feel I'm really all that good at playing ace-high and king-high.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I bet the turn, so what do I do if it goes MP3 folds, CO raises?

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have the odds to chase just your gutshot, so the question becomes: Do you have any pair outs?

Given your read on CO, I think there's a good chance he just made two pair (with 97s, I guess?; you'd think he'd bet Q9 on the flop) or was slowplaying on the flop. It's also possible he just has a hand like A9, and you'd want to continue against that.

Ugh. I don't know. I think I'd fold, but I don't think calling is so bad.

[Buck_65]

Luckily I didn't have to worry about whether or not to call a turn bet, as my bet picked up the pot on the turn.

I'm glad I posted this hand. It offers some common, difficult choices that I have a lot of trouble with. Thanks for clearing up that the flop is a pretty clear bet. Playing this kind of hand well is what separates the modest winners from the significant ones.