Another Damn AK conundrum

[Scuba Chuck]

***** Hand History for Game 2363088194 *****
30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 13929151) - Thu Jul 14 16:04:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 11873 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: pokerorgasm (485)
Seat 2: sean_1 (1460)
Seat 3: kq_baggio (595)
Seat 4: lastdeu (1075)
Seat 5: pak0719 (1015)
Seat 7: jimbofever (300)
Seat 8: SCUBA CHUCK(685)
Seat 9: Doylesmentor (1685)
Seat 10: elcheapo07 (700)
pak0719 posts small blind (15)
jimbofever posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SCUBA CHUCK[ Ks, As ]
SCUBA CHUCKraises (85) to 85
Doylesmentor folds.
elcheapo07 folds.
pokerorgasm folds.
sean_1 calls (85)
kq_baggio folds.
lastdeu folds.
pak0719 folds.
jimbofever folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ah, 3h, Kh ]
SCUBA CHUCKbets (125)
sean_1 calls (125)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7h ]
SCUBA CHUCKchecks.
sean_1 bets (65)
SCUBA CHUCKcalls (65)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2d ]
SCUBA CHUCKchecks.
sean_1 bets (150)
SCUBA CHUCKfolds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 745
Board: [ Ah 3h Kh 7h 2d ]
pokerorgasm balance 485, didn't bet (folded)
sean_1 balance 1780, bet 425, collected 745, net +320
kq_baggio balance 595, didn't bet (folded)
lastdeu balance 1075, didn't bet (folded)
pak0719 balance 1000, lost 15 (folded)
jimbofever balance 270, lost 30 (folded)
SCUBA CHUCKbalance 410, lost 275 (folded)
Doylesmentor balance 1685, didn't bet (folded)
elcheapo07 balance 700, didn't bet (folded)



<font color="blue"> All I can say is that the turn call was easy... you play this any different? </font>

[The Yugoslavian]

Allin on the flop.

Yugoslav

[KingDan]

Almost nothing you want to call, will except maybe a weak ace.

I'd say 250 and be going all in on every turn.

[curtains]

I'd probably play it the same way and be extremely annoyed at the turn. Moving allin on the flop isn't terrible because you have only 600 chips and there are 215 chips in the pot.

Once this flop comes I'm trying to figure out a way to manipulate the betting so there is no way I can possibly fold at any point in the hand. It's hard to do that here though without just making a huge overbet or going allin. It's just so annoying to put in another quarter of my stack and then fold. So it's possible after more reflection I'd just open allin.

[11t]

I would prolly play it the same.

Off topic, are you playing in that heartland open tournament?

[Irieguy]

pak0719 posts small blind (15)
jimbofever posts big blind (30)

[ QUOTE ]
Allin on the flop.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what 2643 posts has taught you?

Irieguy

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
This is what 2643 posts has taught you?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was distracted: Gig is playing a $4475 HU match w/Beef

[Irieguy]

When the action is to you, there are 45 chips in the pot and you have 685 chips. When you raise to 85, you are likely to end up seeing a flop with 200+ chips in the pot and 600 chips behind, while out of position against at least one player.

You have manipulated the pot in such a way as to make it as difficult as possible to play.

Post-flop, this hand illustrates an interesting concept: sometimes you should represent a hand that you do not hold... even if your holding is strong. Just because you have 2 pair and hate it, doesn't mean you have to let your opponent know that.

Irieguy

[schwza]

i like your line. if you push the flop, you take away JxQh's chance to semi-bluff all-in. you also lose value from AxQx. i like a normal bet on the flop and push a blank turn.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I would prolly play it the same.

Off topic, are you playing in that heartland open tournament?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the heartland open tournament?

[curtains]

QJ with the Q of hearts is going to beat us a lot, Im not sure offhand whether we want them in the pot with us! I would guess that we don't.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]

QJ with the Q of hearts is going to beat us a lot, Im not sure offhand whether we want them in the pot with us!

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, that's a good point... i'm dumb and missed the gutshot.

[DangerGoodson]

I think the turn called is fine your getting 6 to 1, but your implied odds are big, cause I think the villian is donk betting the flush, and so if you hit your 4 outer to the full-house, you'll get paid.


I make a pot size bet on a flop like this.



The river is interesting, I think he flopped the flush, what else would he be cold-calling a preflop raise with? A 10h? QhJ?

[johnnybeef]

i think your line on the turn absolutely sucks. you check and call 65? why not just bet the 65? the line that you have taken allows your opponent to make a very easy bluff. granted, there is a decent chance he has a heart, but, if he is holding on to say 7d7h, the decision becomes much tougher for him.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
pak0719 posts small blind (15)
jimbofever posts big blind (30)

[ QUOTE ]
Allin on the flop.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what 2643 posts has taught you?

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Well hero has 600 behind and there is 215 in the pot. Anything more than Scuba's bet makes the pot too big to play very well on the turn (IMO).

Basically I want those 215 chips right now. I have outs vs. a flush (not many of course) and most of the time should take the pot down. Hell, I probably get some value from A and no heart thinking I'm trying to bluff with a draw or a pocket pair. I don't see how I can manipulate this pot now to draw much more value from hands I'm way ahead of here....so I push.

I like raising to t69 chips pre-flop and then betting but not pushing on that flop.

Yugoslav

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
When the action is to you, there are 45 chips in the pot and you have 685 chips. When you raise to 85, you are likely to end up seeing a flop with 200+ chips in the pot and 600 chips behind, while out of position against at least one player.

You have manipulated the pot in such a way as to make it as difficult as possible to play.


[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you 100%, but what alternative do you propose, limping?

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
When the action is to you, there are 45 chips in the pot and you have 685 chips. When you raise to 85, you are likely to end up seeing a flop with 200+ chips in the pot and 600 chips behind, while out of position against at least one player.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, then what's a better line?

[ QUOTE ]


You have manipulated the pot in such a way as to make it as difficult as possible to play.



[/ QUOTE ]

Raise more?


[ QUOTE ]

Post-flop, this hand illustrates an interesting concept: sometimes you should represent a hand that you do not hold... even if your holding is strong. Just because you have 2 pair and hate it, doesn't mean you have to let your opponent know that.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

So check-call or check-raise?

I don't like check-raising allin on the flop because I'm likely to pot commit anyone.... (edited)

[KingDan]

[ QUOTE ]
QJ with the Q of hearts is going to beat us a lot, Im not sure offhand whether we want them in the pot with us! I would guess that we don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think we are getting someone out with nutflush + straight draw.

I think you want to give some of these people the chance to call you incorrectly, where as the will fold to the all-in.