Good overbet?

[Chaostracize]

No reads. I'll post my thoughts after a little discussion.


***** Hand History for Game 2362951089 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:13928378 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Thursday, July 14, 15:29:26 EDT 2005
Table Table 11899 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Woo25 ( $1200 )
Seat 2: CiaoMein ( $915 )
Seat 5: HANILCH ( $1005 )
Seat 6: Kozmo40 ( $1965 )
Seat 10: DITECH_COM ( $2085 )
Seat 9: STUCKINLODI ( $1340 )
Seat 7: lg004571 ( $475 )
Seat 3: PocketDaniel ( $1015 )
Trny:13928378 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to CiaoMein [ Ah 8h ]
lg004571 folds.
STUCKINLODI folds.
DITECH_COM folds.
Woo25 folds.
CiaoMein raises [150].
PocketDaniel folds.
>You have options at Table 12084 Table!.
HANILCH folds.
Kozmo40 calls [100].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Jc, Th ]
Kozmo40 checks.
CiaoMein is all-In [765]...

(Convertor is down for the count)

[mlagoo]

Seems ok. The only other option I see is checking it through for a free-card, which seems a bit weak-tight. Any other bet basically pot commits you anyway with less fold equity, so I don't see a reason for it.

[durron597]

You have at least 12 clean outs, if not 15. This is fine.

[lastchance]

Standard. Even if I don't have the heart draw, I'm shoving here.

[curtains]

I'd definitely move allin on this flop. You don't want someone thinking they can get fancy on you with 55 when you only have an ace high draw.

[11t]

Only bad if he flopped a set.

[11t]

After the preflop raise, checking behind is very no bueno imo.

[AKQJ10]

Given the number of outs, you're probably a favorite in the hand. Wouldn't it be better to induce your opponent to bet into you after making your hand? There are only 6 blinds in the pot anyway -- do you really want to push your opponent out of a smallish pot as a favorite?

Depending on your table image, etc. I think a "post oak" bet of 25% of the pot or less might have an interesting effect. If he folds, you lost nothing except maybe an induced bluff (remote). If he reads it for weakness and raises, THEN you push. If he calls and bets the turn, then it depends on pot odds and the turn but you probably semibluff-push then.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
After the preflop raise, checking behind is very no bueno imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I agree. The only merit to this is that if you get lucky and spike a heart or a 9 on the turn, there's a chance you get bet out at, which is nice. Maybe you can make a few more chips off of the hand.

The play is allin though.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
...if you get lucky and spike a heart or a 9 on the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard "spike" used to refer to a 12-outer. Even "get lucky" is pushing it. And an ace will probably make a winning hand too.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...if you get lucky and spike a heart or a 9 on the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard "spike" used to refer to a 12-outer. Even "get lucky" is pushing it. And an ace will probably make a winning hand too.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh jesus, find something else to bitch about

sorry our view on the term "spike" is different. i'll replace it with "find" next time, to ensure everyone knows i am "poker term savvy."

and hitting a 12 or 15 outer on the turn would be lucky. not incredibly lucky. but the odds are against it.


what a stupid post.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the number of outs, you're probably a favorite in the hand. Wouldn't it be better to induce your opponent to bet into you after making your hand? There are only 6 blinds in the pot anyway -- do you really want to push your opponent out of a smallish pot as a favorite?

Depending on your table image, etc. I think a "post oak" bet of 25% of the pot or less might have an interesting effect. If he folds, you lost nothing except maybe an induced bluff (remote). If he reads it for weakness and raises, THEN you push. If he calls and bets the turn, then it depends on pot odds and the turn but you probably semibluff-push then.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably a favorite however not a large enough one to not want to take down the 300 chips in the pot immediately.

[AKQJ10]

The point is that you're talking about an(at least) 12-out draw like it's a huge longshot.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is that you're talking about an(at least) 12-out draw like it's a huge longshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i'll chalk it up to bad writing then. i wasn't trying to convey that at all.

[AKQJ10]

Fair enough. No put-down intended.

[Chaostracize]

t350 is not a small amount. If I bet, and he raises, my re-raise all-in has no folding equity, whereas pushing does. I just wanted to make sure my 2x pot bet wasn't nuts here. But I don't think I'm doing it without the flush draw.

[Chaostracize]

Without the flush draw you've lost 9 outs against top pair and mid pair hands, should he choose to call. I think I disagree with moving in without the flush draw. Now if I had the Ah, that changes things a little... but I still think that would be reckless and I'd probably make a bet of around t150, and try to take it down there and shut down if played with.

[Chaostracize]

Villain called with 97o. I spiked my 9 on the turn and the reiver didn't help villain.

[Unoriginalname]

Hmm, I would've folded this preflop. Does anyone else do this or have I been playing too tight?

[curtains]

Raising is fine, but folding is fine also.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
t350 is not a small amount. If I bet, and he raises, my re-raise all-in has no folding equity, whereas pushing does.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point. I don't like my post-oak idea the more I think about it. But checking behind is probably not too bad, given the high probablity of hitting something. Betting is probably even better -- especially since your opponent appears passive, so my idea of hitting your hand and inducing a bluff probably isn't more +EV -- and given your stack size an all-in bet is reasonable.

[Chaostracize]

Yeah, like usual, I'm not planning on getting married to any flop that hits an A or 8, but this flop seemed like the best I could ask for. It's a playable hand, and I'm the opener, so most times I'll just be taking down this pot without opposition.