Cheap/freeroll online tourney strategy

[tvdad]

Is there really any strategy to doing well in the cheap and/or freeroll online tourneys? It seems like every time I play one of these at Planet Poker it's the maniacs who end up with the bulk of the seats at the final table. They play every hand, raise a lot, chase everything to the river, etc. And it sure seems to work a lot more often than it should.

If I play tight in the early stages, I invariably have my stack whittled down until I get KK and then lose big to a guy with 86o who hits a straight on the river despite my raises. If I play too loose early I have to hope I hit something (ie. play just like a maniac and pray.) So I mostly sit back, play tight, and hope the maniacs take each other out until I either get a big hand or get moved to a different table. I can get to the break most times with this strategy (down to, say, 80 players from 500 total), but unless I have gotten a few lucky big hands my stack is on the low side by then and I'm in trouble.

I do much better when I play ring games for 3/6 or more, and the higher cost tourneys (especially the single tables at Paradise), but I can't seem to get anywhere in the cheapies. Any suggestions?

[cybertilt]

Tvdad, I could be wrong but I think you are confusing loose/aggressive with meniac. In the tournies you are talking about, these loose/aggressive types understand position and the value of certain hands, its not AA KK that will bring home the cheese.

[Fraubump]

Also, consider that 500 opponents is 500 opponents, regardless of their talent. Luck is a big enough factor that winning is going to be tough even if you're the best player in the field. And in no-limit, players who go all-in a lot with weaker stuff preflop make things pretty difficult. Even if you call with the better hand, you still have at best about an 87% chance of winning the hand, so if you aren't covering the all-in you risk extinction over and over again.

[tvdad]

No, I wasn't talking about loose/aggressive. I was referring to players who call every single preflop bet, and raise the maximum almost every hand when they are first to act regardless of position.

I realize I'm not going to win a 500 player tourney like this very often, or even make it to the final table. I was just pointing out that the majority of people who do make the final table seem to be those people I described above.

By the way, I got bumped out of a PL HE tourney today by one of these guys. I was down to a pretty small stack and raised all-in preflop with KQs and got called by SB and BB. Flop came down KQ3, but my elation was short lived as the maniac SB had called with Q3 (one of his better hands, actually) and caught a 3 on the river. (BB had called with AK.)

[marbles]

"By the way, I got bumped out of a PL HE tourney today by one of these guys. I was down to a pretty small stack and raised all-in preflop with KQs and got called by SB and BB. Flop came down KQ3, but my elation was short lived as the maniac SB had called with Q3 (one of his better hands, actually) and caught a 3 on the river. (BB had called with AK.)"

--That's just a fact of life in tourneys, nothing more. I get pretty good therapy from watching tourneys on ESPN; these are mostly final tables at world-class tourneys, and guys get smoked regularly regardless of their odds when they go all-in preflop.

Another therapeudic exercise is to watch how many people YOU knock out of tournaments along the way, particularly in multi's. Obviously, it sucks to finish out of the money, but it comforts me to know I took 8 or 9 guys with me.

[Samson]

I find in the freerolls that you have to take chances that you would not normally take in ring games to come out on top. The idea is to accumulate a large amount of chips as fast as you can. If the top 10 get paid out of 500, who cares if you come in 500th or 11th, they are both the same financially.

So go for it early, and if you lose, move on to another freeroll.

Check out: http://www.pokermate.com/tournaments and put 0 in Stakes box to get a list of freerolls. This site has a list of all paid and free tourneys. Really helpful for the tournament player.

[Simon Diamond]

Hi,

Heres my take on freeroll strategy:

The strategy of 'get chips quick or move on to the next one' is fine in the short term, but you will learn very little this way.

If you are going to play the freerolls recreationally, then by all means come out all guns blazing. But if you really want to become a better player, try to play properly (I cannot define properly, I am simply not good enough myself).

The first thing I consider when choosing a freeroll is value. That includes number of entrants, likely length of the event, prize fund and quality of the opposition. I prefer to play shorter tourneys, with smaller entry numbers - simply because I have a hectic life. If I have the time, I don't mind playing the odd Poker Stars (5hr length, 600+ entrants) freeroll.

I have played on many sites such as Dynamite, ACR, 24h Poker and Big Bet Poker, when they were in the start up phase. The freerolls had few entries and offered decent value in my opinion. As entries increased, I decreased the amount of tourneys I played on the particular site in question. That is another reason I don't play freerolls very often - there aren't many 'value' freerolls around any more.

I normally start all of my tournaments with survival being the primary aim. If you can survive the carnage stage of the tournament, which is usually the start when people call and raise with unorthodox holdings, then you stand a chance of reaching the latter stages. If you blow all of your chips in the first half hour then obviously you have no chance.

As a guide, I like to make the first break in Poker Stars tournaments with at least $1,000 still intact. At least if you manage that, you give yourself a chance - you need to look at winning the first pot you enter after the break.

That doesn't mean that you cannot garner chips during the first hour - I like to see flops cheap and play my hand strongly if I connect. After the break, I tend not to call very much, preferring to either raise or fold. Try and play the player/situation and not the solely the cards too - I read a lot of newbies questions and a lot of them totally disregard aspects like position or the opponents in question and concentrate on what their cards are.

That is okay at first if you are getting to grips with the game, but when you start to consider the nature of your opponents and position, sometimes what you actually hold can become less important. I suppose I am directly referring to blind stealing and bluffing - be careful with these, as people correctly state, a lot of players in freerolls like to call any bet and see a flop every time. Bluffing them can be risky business.

Equally, if you perceive someone to be a solid player, then the cards you hold can become more important. Try to raise, rather than call if you like your hand - just don't fall in love with your hand if the situation gets sticky! I have done that many times and lost.

One of the other things I have tried to do is develop a style of play, and be flexible enough to adapt it during a tourney. Flexibility in freerolls is important. I believe there are three or four phases you need to conquer.

1 is the start, where a lot of people call and raise essentially weak holdings - I like to call it the minefield stage. Dodge the mines and you can move onto number two.

2 - The middle of the tournament, if you have a short stack you need to look for an opportunity to double up before the blinds do some terminal damage. If you have a medium to big stack, the only way is up!

3 - The final few tables. If you have got this far, then most of the advice in 2 still applies. You might have suffered a huge bad beat and had your chip stack crippled or dished out a beat of your own to build a monster tower of chips. Maybe a drought of cards or opportunities leave you gasping for air, or you have had your big hands connect for some big pots. All the same, you need to stick in there, continue trying to build, and don't throw away all your hard work.

I got down to the last 12 in a $2 NLHE tourney on Poker Stars, and was 2nd in chips. I played solid for the first hour, survived, then through solid aggressive play, built up a stack to challenge for a win. In one moment however, I blew my chance - I made a reckless all-in move with Ah-Qh on a 10 high flop (1 heart) and got called by the chip leader with 10-10. 2 and a half hours down the drain in one moment of madness!

Stage four is the final table - if you are in the money, don't relax too much as there is still work to do. Try and win as many pots as possible without committing all your chips and you stand a good chance - just remember that to win, you are going to have to win some decisive hands. Timing is the key, and good old lady luck usually plays her part at some point.

You need luck to reach finals in freerolls for sure, but if you try and play a solid game there is no reason why you cannot reach more than just a few 'lucky' ones. I managed 3rd in the $250 on Poker Stars on Saturday, simply by playing solid poker and getting my odd share of luck.

Don't let the bad beats grind you down either - they are annoying, but happen. I had A-A cracked at a pivotal point in the tournament on Saturday, but that merely spurred me on to bigger and better things. Be patient too, remember that you cannot win a tournament in one hand. The more mistakes you make, the more your chance of winning diminishes.

One final thing; there are actually some good freeroll players out there (many progress into buy-in tournaments with decent success, and some already play buy-ins and are just looking for some cheap practice/fun) - if that is what you aspire to, then knuckle down and play good solid poker. In the long run, you will achieve more success that way, rather than pick up bad habits that will see you roasted in buy-in tourneys. Don't worry about making mistakes - just make sure you learn from them.

If I did that, I would be a much better player. Taking my own advice must be a bitter pill or something...

Good luck

Simon

PS I think this is my first serious post on the Tournaments forum, and it is easily the longest I have written - please go easy on me! My strategy has allowed me a decent amount of success in about 7 months of play - but is not foolproof of course. Feel free to correct any glaring errors I have made. /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif