ellipse_87
07-14-2005, 03:24 PM
In my 4 or 5 orbits, I had seen SB quickly lay down an apparent overpair in good position when a second Q fell on the turn, and UTG call and check the entire way with a flopped 2-pair to win a pot. I concluded one could be bullied and the other didn't know what he was doing.
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Flop: (13 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Turn: (13 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
River: (23 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, SB folds.
Final Pot: 27 BB
Given my read, what should I have done on the turn and river w UTG's puzzling stop-n-go? I had intended to call the cap on the flop and fold the turn if UI.
And (different question) if the players were unknown, is the default move on the flop a laydown? Two are betting into me after I raised PF; there's a flush draw with a crowded field; and the flopped 3s/4d, along w UTG's early PF position, strongly indicates that if UTG has a made hand, it's a set, not 2 pair. On the other hand, the flush draw dirties only one of my 5 outs; I have a backdoor straight draw; and UTG+1 (who played Kc2c) shows that maybe 2-pair can't be so easily discounted at .25/.50.
As I'm writing this, I'm leaning toward the conclusion that one should three-bet to see if UTG has a made hand or is just cleaning up his outs. But that can get kind of expensive at .25/.50 because in a lot of hands, like in this one, a raise won't extract accurate information from the raiser.
Thanks for your feedback.
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Flop: (13 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
Turn: (13 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.
River: (23 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, SB folds.
Final Pot: 27 BB
Given my read, what should I have done on the turn and river w UTG's puzzling stop-n-go? I had intended to call the cap on the flop and fold the turn if UI.
And (different question) if the players were unknown, is the default move on the flop a laydown? Two are betting into me after I raised PF; there's a flush draw with a crowded field; and the flopped 3s/4d, along w UTG's early PF position, strongly indicates that if UTG has a made hand, it's a set, not 2 pair. On the other hand, the flush draw dirties only one of my 5 outs; I have a backdoor straight draw; and UTG+1 (who played Kc2c) shows that maybe 2-pair can't be so easily discounted at .25/.50.
As I'm writing this, I'm leaning toward the conclusion that one should three-bet to see if UTG has a made hand or is just cleaning up his outs. But that can get kind of expensive at .25/.50 because in a lot of hands, like in this one, a raise won't extract accurate information from the raiser.
Thanks for your feedback.