passive gaybet defense

[donger]

BB in this hand is passive enough, I'm not going to like my hand when he bets into me. UTG is way too loose preflop and reasonably aggressive postflop. Good? Bad?

This is a new line for me..


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 5.70 BB

[bds]

I agree. Good fold.

[JrJordan]

HU I think it's ok. The problem is BB nearly has odds to draw to a gutshot. Everything hits the fan too when UTG bets the turn again, as most aggro players do. If you're worried about a turn donk bet, then I'd say the call is ok. My usual line would be to raise the flop and bet the turn to charge the draw (while folding to a c/r) and check through the river UI.

[donger]

[ QUOTE ]
HU I think it's ok. The problem is BB nearly has odds to draw to a gutshot. Everything hits the fan too when UTG bets the turn again, as most aggro players do. If you're worried about a turn donk bet, then I'd say the call is ok. My usual line would be to raise the flop and bet the turn to charge the draw (while folding to a c/r) and check through the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you fold to a flop three-bet?

I've started to realize one of my bigger leaks is misplaying non-nut no-pair hands. I think I take them to showdown too much, especially after having been popped on the turn.

Back to this hand: let's say BB cold calls your flop raise and Mr. Gaybet calls (a common occurence, given BB's stats).. do you still fire the turn against two players?

[GetThere1Time]

I usually take the same line as JrJordan in hands like this, and sometimes I raise a safe turn/free showdown if he likes to follow through the flop donkbet on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you fold to a flop three-bet?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. A lot of the time you'll have 6 outs so I call and fold the turn UI.

[ QUOTE ]
Back to this hand: let's say BB cold calls your flop raise and Mr. Gaybet calls (a common occurence, given BB's stats).. do you still fire the turn against two players?

[/ QUOTE ]

The BB is LP and probably peeling with a lot and UTG doesn't necessarily have to have anything. I fire again here and show it down. If you, in fact, don't have the best hand you have outs and this is an easy fold to a raise.

[JrJordan]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you fold to a flop three-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because more often than not it's an 8. A typical aggro player is going to slowplay the hell out of that 7 instead of lead out with it, so I'd be inclined to peel for the turn and fold there UI.

[ QUOTE ]

I've started to realize one of my bigger leaks is misplaying non-nut no-pair hands. I think I take them to showdown too much, especially after having been popped on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I've seen a dramatic drop in my flop aggression over the last 20k hands, however my bet/raise% remains very close to what it was before. The only conclusion I can make is that I've been peeling too many flops where I should be folding. That being said, I think this pot is big enough and your hand strong enough vs. this type of opponent to make a stand. If the donk bettor was a more passive player, I just might fold the flop.

[ QUOTE ]

Back to this hand: let's say BB cold calls your flop raise and Mr. Gaybet calls (a common occurence, given BB's stats).. do you still fire the turn against two players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, BB's cold call has me worried about him having a pair too. I check the turn and take a free card, and fold the river UI.

[GetThere1Time]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, BB's cold call has me worried about him having a pair too. I check the turn and take a free card, and fold the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

But isn't a LP BB peeling with a whole lot we're beating? Plus, this means were not going to a showdown. If BB checks the river rather than betting, UTG is probably going to bet the majority of the time whether he has a better than us or not.

When both players call we get 7:1 on the bet. The chance that we might improve is 9:1 and theres a decent chance we might have the best hand. UTG might also fold 2 random cards that have 6 outs against us. I think all this and the fact we make it to showdown makes a turn bet worthwhile.

[mungpo]

This is the line I usually take on these situations.