Ax from the blinds

[msk]

I am playing in a generally pretty passive game, there aren't a lot
of situations which are too complex. But here is one which bothers me:

I have A3 in the BB or A7 in the SB, for instance. I see the flop free or
for one chip. The flop is something like A94r, for instance. Not too well
coordinated, maybe 2-3 other players, I am first. Since no one raised
pre-flop, the A is good for me, but I might also lose too much by playing
it too hard: I lot of these players *will* play any A.

What's a good plan once the A drops on the flop?
I have a plan which I use about 80% of the time, not sure it is good.

tia,

Mark

[msk]

I usually checkraise (90% of the time gets bet no matter what, so I am not
giving free cards). If I get reraised, I fold. If it does get called, I
generally bet out on the turn no matter what. And fold to a raise. In fact,
if my checkraise gets called on the flop, I will bet out (and fold to a raise)
on the turn no matter what. And bet and then call unless something
extraordinary hits the river....

Mark

[SoBeDude]

The problem with Ax, is since others are playing it as well, your kicker becomes important.

whether you paid half a bet or a full bet preflop is insignificant to spending 2.5 BBs pushing your ace-bad kicker to the river, only to find your A3 is beat by the other guys' A4 through AK.

If he has some kicker less than a queen, he's probably not going to raise you, he'll just call you down.

You need to be careful. I think your strategy will lose you a lot of money.

If I pair an ace on the board, rest assured I have at least a decent kicker 85% of the time.

If I have a naked ace and an ace flops, if I bet the turn and get called, I check it down to the river after that.
I'd usually check the flop, and if checked around, bet the turn.

-Scott

[msk]

Scott,

thanks. I will play A with a good kicker 85% of the time too, it is why I
specifically mention the blinds, that's where betting this out and playing
against a bad player who keeps (let's say) A5o from the middle can lose
a lot; but then should I check and fold to a bet where the bettor might
have anything?

That seems bad too.

I checkraise to try to see where I am. A player with a good hand will
hopefully reraise, then I can fold and smile. But then maybe I should not
bet the turn? Hm, that seems like giving a lot of free cards. Maybe the
point is to check the river just in case....????

Confused still.

Mark

[Vehn]

Unless my table image was super bluffy, if that's a word, my default play is check/call, check/call, bet. If it is (and is sometimes), I just bet and expect someone to call me down with middle pair or worse.

Checkraising the flop is terrible IMO.

[Ulysses]

Small field, I usually bet.

Large field, I usually check-call, though I'll often fold if the wrong players call a flop bet - it means they have an Ace and they definitely have me outkicked.

I never checkraise in this situation w/ Ace-weak. All it does is eliminate the bottom pairs and keep the bigger Aces in. On the other hand, if it's something like Q3/J3 on a Q/J-high flop, I'm very likely to checkraise a late bettor to get the Kings and Aces out of the way.

[rigoletto]

Hi Scott

You have to bet top pair on the flop (or checkraise if you're sure a late player will bet his middle pair/draw/bluff). Checking the flop and letting everybody draw free is only likely to put you in a worse spot on the turn. Say you bet out on the turn after a checkround and somebody raises, what now? did he slow play a monster? did he just catch 2 pair on the turn? Is he betting middle pair heavily after the checked flop?).

Let me ask you this: will you call the flop for one bet? Of course you would, so bet out instead, the odds are that you have the best hand.

[rigoletto]

Bet the flop, bet the turn, usually check the river. Don't stop until you're raised. I know it's frustrating when these passive player's show down AT, AJ etc, but a lot of times a flop bet and/or a turn bet wins you the pot, not to mention the times where you can showdown the best hand.

[SoBeDude]

This is a tough spot.

I should have said I sometimes bet the flop, but always bet the turn if the flop checks around.

I will NOT bet my naked ace from the blinds into 3 or more players. I'm almost guaranteed someone has a better ace than I.

I fold to a checkraise on the turn. Do you really think this is a mistake?

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

Wow my personal experience has really given me trouble with paying off with second-best pair of aces.

Yoo many people will just call when their ATo catches an ace on the flop and they're bet in to.

If I have AJ-A9o and I'm bet in to by the blinds, I'll call the flop and turn bet. If I don't improve but the board doesn't pair or show a possible flush, then I'll bet/raise the river.

I find this the best way to make the money off the silly naked-ace players, and there are plenty. It also doesn't cost me a fortune if I'm beat.

-Scott

[rigoletto]

The original poster specifically talks baout a situation with 2-3 players.

I don't think folding to a checkraise (you're in the blinds, so It'll likely be a raise) on the turn is a mistake. But not betting out definately is most of the time. In passive games it's hard to bet out against a larger field, but in agressive games I'll bet out almost every time in with a paired A from the blinds. How often will there really be another A out there? Odds are that two A's have been dealt after the flop: you have one and the other is on the board. You also have outs to improve with a weak kicker: Often overcards to both kickers will give you a split pot, you can pick up two pair, or the board pairs for a split.

[msk]

I like the idea of betting into 1 or 2 others when no one raised preflop.
But then if there are 3-4 others, do you fold when someone from late
position bets? Do you call down the bettor? Remember, you are early
so you won't be checkraised, but you might be raised if you bet.

I think I agree with most that the checkraise is too cute. So maybe bet once on the flop against few (and check call one bet against many) bet once on the turn against few (and check call against many if the board is benign) and check call rivers when it is not scary for one bet.

thanks,

Mark

[rigoletto]

If I have AJ-A9o and I'm bet in to by the blinds, I'll call the flop and turn bet. If I don't improve but the board doesn't pair or show a possible flush, then I'll bet/raise the river.

You should often raise on the flop here, to limit the field. If checked to on the turn you should probably bet 90% of the time, and if you called on the flop, you should quite often raise the turn (your read is that your up against a weak ace: he'll often call to the river even against a turn raise). You should also consider raising often when a flush or a pair falls on the turn.

[rigoletto]

So maybe bet once on the flop against few (and check call one bet against many)

Where is the advantage of check calling with a large field? You are likely to get more people folding to an early bet than a late one and what if checked around and a scary card falls on the turn - now your top pair is suddenly facing a scary board against a large field and you've practically played yourself into a check/fold situation.

TOP PAIR WITH A WEAK ACE IS ONLY WEAK IF THERE IS ANOTHER ACE OUT THERE!