What is a level II player?

[cybertilt]

This is a term I've heard twice in the mid-high stakes this week. Is there a clear diffenition of the differences or is this a self serving term that one uses to pump his own pickel. What interests me most is that level II moves do not work on level I players. This makes a lot of sense, but what are the moves?

[Jim Easton]

From TOP:
Level one - you think about what your opponent has
Level two - you think about they they think you have
Level three - you think about what they think you think they have

[Dynasty]

I won a hand this afternoon specifically because my opponent was only a Level I thinker.

After three limpers, I raised on the button with AhTh. Five players took the flop including a blind.

The flop was: 9d,7d,4d

It was checked to me and I bet. It got folded to the Level I thinker (MP) who check-raised. The check-raise folded everybody out. I called. Heads-up on the turn.

The turn was: 9d,7d,4d,6d

He checked. I bet. He folded.

He was thinking about what I had. Since I raised pre-flop, he concluded that I had either a big pair or big cards like AK. Since I called his flop check-raise, he concluded that I had either an overpair or big cards with a diamond. It's possible I had both an overpair and a diamond.

When the fourth diamond came on the turn, he concluded that he was possibly drawing dead or at least very slim.

I figure he had something like T9 and folded the best hand.

[sucka]

Nice post. I have a couple questions though, if you don't mind.

Is it possible that this player also could have something like JTs (not diamonds, of course) and check-raised with his overcards and gutshot? The check-raise, imo, is a nice play here because if you get some cold-callers behind you then you'd have to put at least 1 player on a made flush or holding the A or K of diamonds.

So, perhaps he didn't have a (made) hand at all - if he puts you on a bigger pp - then he certainly can't put you on a made flush on the flop. When the turn comes a 4th diamond and he's got no diamonds I think it's a real tough decision to play on or lay this one down. He's got odds to call (to a likely 2nd best hand) with either hand on the turn but I'm not so sure that it was such a horrible play to lay the hand down here, especially against a solid player. It's easy to say you would knowing the outcome - but in all honesty what would you do if you were the other guy and held either something like JT or T9?

Also...

What if he calls your turn bet? How do you play the river now? If he checks to you, do you bet again?

[Dynasty]

A straight draw (even 65) is a possibility.

I actually initially thought his flop check-raise meant that he had a big diamond. My plan was to raise the turn when a non-diamond came. When the fourth diamond hit, I was rather dissapointed and prepared to fold to a bet. When he checked, I was stunned and realized he thought he was now beaten badly.

If he called my turn bet, I think that was the last money I was putting into the pot. I considered it a pure bluff. However, if the As, Ac, Ts, or Tc came on the river, it would have kicked ass to make a value bet and get called by a worse hand.

in all honesty what would you do if you were the other guy and held either something like JT or T9

If I got to the turn the same way he did, I would probably bet and fold to a raise.

[Jim Easton]

Level two - you think about they they think you have

Should be you think about WHAT they think you have.