KQo, AJo and the killers A9o, KTo

[winky51]

I used the have the belief that KQo and AJo were dangerous hands to play UTG or UTG+1. Now that opinion has been reevaluated

In my opinion at the level I play, 3/6, raising is the only option. We assume no PF raisers.

I feel it does 2 things
1: When you do raise with AA, KK, QQ you will get more action since players see you are raising in EP with these 2 hands.

2: To me its easier to get away from the hand if I raise and get reraised later... than I call and get raised later.

I have found them to be +EV over my trial period of 15,000 hands.

VPIP 14.5% about
FP Raise 9.5%
See flop 17.5%
Win showdown 56%
BB per 100: 2.83

I am finding that I like raising with more hands than limping with good ones. Raising with more gets me more action when I do have the bigger hands.

Opinions???

KTo and A9o, the death hands. I hate these hands with a passion. The only time I play these is when I have position and can steal, or a player limps in LP and I know these hands are ahead and I can raise to isolate. I don't even like calling A9o in the SB for 1/2 price.

opinions?

[toss]

At some 3/6 tables I'll raise ATs, 77, and KJs. They tight.

I think your vpip needs to be a little higher too.

How about opening with a wider range of hands when its folded to you MP1 on? And limping in with more marginal hands in LP after 2 or more limpers. More isolation too.

[sy_or_bust]

Many good players regularly raise AJo and KQo UTG. They aren't nearly as bad as they are made out to be, especially when the domination factor is largely sorted out by the preflop action.

ATs I tend not to raise (I think the risk>reward versus limping at typical tables), and IMO it shouldn't be a standard raise for anyone at small stakes. It can probably be done in spots, but I avoid this raise.

By the way, you aren't playing nearly enough hands. KQo/AJo are on the margin UTG, but there are plenty of greater +EV hands you are certainly missing (my guess: first-in from MP/LP).

[mack848]

[ QUOTE ]
ATs I tend not to raise (I think the risk>reward versus limping at typical tables), and IMO it shouldn't be a standard raise for anyone at small stakes. It can probably be done in spots, but I avoid this raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mostly raise ATs UTG at 3/6 and my logic is this:

In the games I play a raise is pretty likely behind me anyway. I'd rather be the aggressor. A 3-bet from mid/late position tells me more about where my ATs stands than a raise of my limp.

Of course, many respected 2+2ers and books advise against this raise, so could someone explain the flaws in my thinking? I just don't see enough flops for 1 SB if I limp at 3/6. At 2/4 I often limp.

[winky51]

I do raise with more from MP 1st in.
KJo, ATo, A9s, A8s, QJo if its the last half.

And I do call with marginal hands and 2 limpers on the button.

Its strange because my VPIP went down slightly but my PFR went up. I am tighter in the front and looser in the read. Yet I am making a good amount more money with less bluffers coming at me. Many hands I thought I was WAY behind and they just all folded because I was aggressive.


I figured my VPIP should be higher. I am realyl pushing my premium hands and reraising more LP players when they try to steal.

[winky51]

Hmm, my range of MP 1st in hands are
groups 1-3, JTs sometimes I limp sometimes I raise.

KTs if I am in the last 1/2 of the table MP2 or MP3
ATs-A8s, ATo
KJo, QTs (MP2 or MP3)
77+

Steals I follow this:
Cutoff Steals - You can open raise from 1 off of the button with these hands:
A/2s+ / A/8o +
K/9s+ / K/10o +
Q/9s+ / Q/10o+
J/9s+/ J/10o+
8/9s+
4/4+

Button Steal - You can open raise on the button with these hands in addition to the ones above:
A/2s+ / A/4o+
K/6s+ / K/9o+
Q/8s+ / Q/9o+
J/8s+ / J/9o+
5/6s+ (suited connectors)
6/8s+ (suited 1 gappers)
2/2+

Small Blind attacking Big blind - You can open raise big blind from little blind with any of these hands:
A/2o+
K/2s+ / K/7o+
Q/8s+ / Q/9o+
J/9s+ / J/10o+
8/10s+
7/8s+
2/2+

With 1 limper in and I am in MP I consider almost all 1st in raising hands as raising hands. Except 88, 77 but that depends which MP I am at.

I find I do much more raise/fold that calls. I usually call down when I feel they are bluffing and I want to nail them.

[sy_or_bust]

[ QUOTE ]
Steals I should follow this:

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP

With 14.5% VP$IP you simply cannot play as you describe. Also, seeing the flop an extra 3% (from the blinds) seems ridiculously low.

[winky51]

ATs I am currently calling UTG. I would raise in the last EP position.

Why? Many players cold call with KJ, AJ, AT. So its a tough situation. AJ is different. A KJ or AT caller you have totally dominated.

Also a reraiser could have AK-AQ, AA-JJ and I don't want to pay down when that Ten hits. If I have AJ its much less likely I am being reraised by JJ.

I am playing the field of 3/6 and the hands I expect them to call with.

Like in 2/4 I limped with TTs. I got beat so many times it was rediculous. Every player with 2 face called and I always got in trouble. 3/6 I always raise with TT. Different players.

Now this was 2/4 of about 8 months ago where players are more passive. Now they seem tighter and playing slightly less fishy so raising with TT UTG might work.

I will have to say this... every month I play I improve leaps and bounds. I look back 6 months ago at how I used to play and can't believe I was so bad. 6 months from now I will be saying the same thing about today. I love poker. I love winning at poker.

Next year the Winkster is going to WSOP. Gotta win the money to go there.

[brettbrettr]

I think the Winkster should raise ATs UTG. Take that to the World Series!

[winky51]

Well I don't know what to tell you. I know I am making more now than before after I changed my play.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I mostly raise ATs UTG at 3/6 and my logic is this:

In the games I play a raise is pretty likely behind me anyway. I'd rather be the aggressor. A 3-bet from mid/late position tells me more about where my ATs stands than a raise of my limp.

Of course, many respected 2+2ers and books advise against this raise, so could someone explain the flaws in my thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you also raise UTG with A2s? I'm guessing no. The reasons why not are the same reasons why you don't raise ATs UTG.