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bluewilde

07-13-2005, 10:02 PM

Right then, I've been playing SNG's pretty hardcore for about a month but every now and then drift over to the 0.5/1 on party/empire. When I was originally learning hold 'em, I read all the Two Plus Two books on limit; naturally I had some trouble applying this to the NL SNG-style tournies on my freshman hall (woops). Now switching back (to be fair I never really learned how to play in limit ring games in the first place), I'm making a small profit but am pretty sure that that's just variance and I, indeed, suck. I'll work on that (still focusing on NL SNGs, but want to put some effort into studying limit cash games too). So far I've been following the preflop chart in the FAQ, is this as high quality as I think it is, or am I gonna want to drift away from it eventually?

Sorry to bore you all with the intro, here are the hands. Party 0.5/1 limit cash game. In the first, I opt for the "meh...I have AK" approach. I bet every street and finally it's folded on the river. Too strong, or appropriate for the low limits where the caller might have ANY hand? In the second, it's 4 bets preflop, but I still call down with A-high. Both hands work out (more or less), but is that dumb luck or appropriate play? Thanks for the input,

Blue

Edit: Fixed the format. Sorry, just read the post about razz, hadn't realized there was a fix yet. I understand how annoying the cluttered version can be. My bad.

1)

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO folds, UTG folds.

River: (8.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

2)

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

topspin

07-13-2005, 10:13 PM

Hand 1 I check-call the turn. I don't think your hand is best at this point, and it's rare you'll have much fold equity the way it worked out here.

Hand 2 I'm folding the turn. Against any reasonable capping hand you're splitting or losing if you hit, and you're just not getting odds to draw.

bluewilde

07-13-2005, 10:18 PM

Hand 1: OK, I doubted my hand was best but wasn't sure how to proceed. If I check-call the turn can I fold the flop unimproved?

Hand 2: Basically the only way I get any money out of this pot is if we end up splitting (the only hand I could see the raiser capping is AK or a pair). So should I fold the flop if I miss? In situations where I'm pretty sure the opponent has the same hand or has me beat, should I fold to his bets?

benkath1

07-13-2005, 10:20 PM

What are the other players like. Have you seen them show down A high before, or call down with bottom/middle pair?

I would check the river on hand 1. It's been my experience if they are calling that much they have a peice of the board somewhere.

Without a read, I fold the river in hand 2. He did cap preflop, might mean he has A high beat.

topspin

07-13-2005, 10:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: OK, I doubted my hand was best but wasn't sure how to proceed. If I check-call the turn can I fold the flop unimproved?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I'd check-fold the river (I assume that's what you're talking about?) UI. If it's just 1 or 2 opponents on the turn I'd consider firing again though.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Basically the only way I get any money out of this pot is if we end up splitting (the only hand I could see the raiser capping is AK or a pair). So should I fold the flop if I miss?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he could have JJ-TT or KK some other hand that you might beat by pairing. The pot is big enough to peel one off here.

What I mean is that on the turn, he's either got a hand that is ahead right now (i.e. a big pocket pair), or he's got AK in which case you're only winning half the pot, or he's got AA/QQ and you're drawing dead. Put that all together and your outs are sufficiently heavily discounted that you're not getting odds to draw anymore.

bluewilde

07-13-2005, 10:32 PM

I'm new to the table so I don't have any reads, guess that means I have to give em credit for more than high card. I asked because the first guy folding indicates he can't beat a Q, but that's clearly lucky. In the second hand, villain has AK and we chop, but again, thought I was just lucky. Good to know. I read Ed Miller's post on folding too much and sorta used it as liscecse to be a call-a-holic with AK and high pairs when they miss, something I'm working on very quickly to fix.

benkath1

07-13-2005, 10:46 PM

I can relate with the AK woes. That hand is hard to figure out. I'm leaning towards fit or fold on the river unless I have some substantial evidence I could win. When I first got PT and saw how many times I was getting dealt AK, I felt clueless everytime I had it. After a while you have to realize with 2 overcards, you have 6 outs and they are not all clean most of the time.

bozlax

07-13-2005, 11:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...the first guy folding indicates he can't beat a Q...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no. The guy folding the river in the first hand indicates he can't beat a pair of tens, and is worried that you've got AA/KK/QQ/AQ. I think you might've made him fold the better hand on the river with 99-77.

I agree with previous posters that you pushed too hard, here. And, I agree with you that you got lucky. Welcome aboard.