ajmargarine
07-13-2005, 05:55 PM
Many of the threads have a miniraise involved because we see them sooo much at the smaller limits, and so I post this to see what others are thinking when it comes to facing miniraises. Of course many of the threads involve Hero running into a miniraised monster, otherwise they wouldn't be posting and asking how they could get away from their hand. Anyhoooo...
At full table ring, I see four different types of miniraises/miniraisers (MR):
#1. Preflop.
-- If player opens the betting with a miniraise of the BB, all we know is that he has a playable hand according to his standards.
-- If MR is early after one limp, probably same as above.
-- If MR is after multiple limpers, or out of the blinds with multiple limpers already in, we can deduce that the miniraiser is probably a weak player.
-- MR to isolate. One preflop raiser with a standard 3-5xBB raise...and the MR comes from behind to discourage others from entering the pot, so the MR isolates the initial raiser head to head. Vast majority of the time you'll be up against a top 10 premium hand or a non premium PP.
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#2. Postflop, Miniraise to first betting action.
This one is the key. And the key aspect is first betting action. Which may happen on the flop or turn, but mostly the flop. (If it goes check, check, check on the flop...and then someone leads out on the turn, that would be first postflop betting action)
--MR as semibluff. With a flush or straight draw on the board, you may see a miniraise semibluff with the intent of getting a free card on the turn and river. (ie. MR hoping to be checked to on the turn, and then checking behind)
--MR as information getter. 'I have a nice hand, I am going to raise him now to see where I stand.'
--MR from non-believers. 'Mr TAG can't have a good hand every time he bets. I am going to raise here and try to take the pot from him in case he missed.'
--MR from non-believer II. 'There's so many fish at this table, that this guy must be a fish too playing any two cards. I probably have him beat or will have him beat by the river so I MR.'
--MR from bullies. 'I noticed Hero is playing weakly. If I raise here he might fold, and if not he will probably fold if I make a nice raise when he checks into me on the turn.'
--MR as bluff. Bully, maniac, donkey default raise often is the miniraise, especially during the first betting actions after the flop.
--MR the monsters. How do you play your monsters when you are bet into on the flop? I know it depends on alot of various factors, flop texture, table images, what kind of monster, how many people still in the hand, etc. and is impossible to answer in such a general tense; but, even the weak player can see the advantage of calling behind, and giving the initial bettor some rope to hang himself out to dry. By calling behind you let the initial bettor hopefully lead out on the turn, and you get to make a raise there. Yes, people miniraise their monsters early, so we have to keep on our toes. The miniraise is almost an autocall, so an early mini value bet with your monster can be a good thing if you're not sure how to get the most $ in the pot.
So, your reaction to these #2 miniraises becomes dependent on reading your opponent. What is he doing, and just as importantly, what is his read on what I am doing? You often are getting good odds to call a miniraise, and then the big decisions happen on the next round of betting. Check/call down? Lead right into the MR the next round of betting?
(Note: if you face a miniraise on the flop, and your plan is to call it, then check the turn and see what MR does, you will almost always face a nice sized bet on the turn...so don't call the flop MR, if you're not prepared to call the inevitable turn bet.)
Your style of play often dictates the kind of miniraises you will be facing. If you are passive, you get bullies miniraising you because it's cheap. If you are aggressive, you get non-believers and information getters miniraising you all the time. If you are conservative, you get miniraised when you are beat. /images/graemlins/wink.gif
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#3. A miniraise after there has already been a round of betting. (for example, 4 handed after flop and it goes bet, fold, call, fold..turn comes and it goes, bet, miniraise).
--MR's here mean you are up against a big hand far more than someone just messing with you. Unless your hand is well disguised, you're probably behind or hugely dominated. They're not trying to get info from you, or minimove you off your hand. You've already shown twice that you have some kind of hand, thereby defining it somewhat for them. They are trying to get more money in the pot, because they think they have you beat.
**I think if we differentiate between the type of miniraise, #2 or #3, while at the table, our play will greatly improve and we won't swallow our gum everytime we are miniraised.**
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And finally, #4, striking fear in the hearts of 2+2 SSHE players everywhere......the minicheckraise. I'll leave the door open on that one. It usually comes down to an odds call, and a read on your opponent. You are almost always getting odds to call his bet, and unless you are very certain on your read of your opponent, you should often call the smaller minicheckraises (well, I am anyways, some like to head for the hills here), and seeing what develops on later streets, as you have position.
Well, that's all I can come up with at the moment. Feel free to hammer away at the holes in my thinking. Any thoughts on this topic are greatly appreciated.
--aj
At full table ring, I see four different types of miniraises/miniraisers (MR):
#1. Preflop.
-- If player opens the betting with a miniraise of the BB, all we know is that he has a playable hand according to his standards.
-- If MR is early after one limp, probably same as above.
-- If MR is after multiple limpers, or out of the blinds with multiple limpers already in, we can deduce that the miniraiser is probably a weak player.
-- MR to isolate. One preflop raiser with a standard 3-5xBB raise...and the MR comes from behind to discourage others from entering the pot, so the MR isolates the initial raiser head to head. Vast majority of the time you'll be up against a top 10 premium hand or a non premium PP.
==========
#2. Postflop, Miniraise to first betting action.
This one is the key. And the key aspect is first betting action. Which may happen on the flop or turn, but mostly the flop. (If it goes check, check, check on the flop...and then someone leads out on the turn, that would be first postflop betting action)
--MR as semibluff. With a flush or straight draw on the board, you may see a miniraise semibluff with the intent of getting a free card on the turn and river. (ie. MR hoping to be checked to on the turn, and then checking behind)
--MR as information getter. 'I have a nice hand, I am going to raise him now to see where I stand.'
--MR from non-believers. 'Mr TAG can't have a good hand every time he bets. I am going to raise here and try to take the pot from him in case he missed.'
--MR from non-believer II. 'There's so many fish at this table, that this guy must be a fish too playing any two cards. I probably have him beat or will have him beat by the river so I MR.'
--MR from bullies. 'I noticed Hero is playing weakly. If I raise here he might fold, and if not he will probably fold if I make a nice raise when he checks into me on the turn.'
--MR as bluff. Bully, maniac, donkey default raise often is the miniraise, especially during the first betting actions after the flop.
--MR the monsters. How do you play your monsters when you are bet into on the flop? I know it depends on alot of various factors, flop texture, table images, what kind of monster, how many people still in the hand, etc. and is impossible to answer in such a general tense; but, even the weak player can see the advantage of calling behind, and giving the initial bettor some rope to hang himself out to dry. By calling behind you let the initial bettor hopefully lead out on the turn, and you get to make a raise there. Yes, people miniraise their monsters early, so we have to keep on our toes. The miniraise is almost an autocall, so an early mini value bet with your monster can be a good thing if you're not sure how to get the most $ in the pot.
So, your reaction to these #2 miniraises becomes dependent on reading your opponent. What is he doing, and just as importantly, what is his read on what I am doing? You often are getting good odds to call a miniraise, and then the big decisions happen on the next round of betting. Check/call down? Lead right into the MR the next round of betting?
(Note: if you face a miniraise on the flop, and your plan is to call it, then check the turn and see what MR does, you will almost always face a nice sized bet on the turn...so don't call the flop MR, if you're not prepared to call the inevitable turn bet.)
Your style of play often dictates the kind of miniraises you will be facing. If you are passive, you get bullies miniraising you because it's cheap. If you are aggressive, you get non-believers and information getters miniraising you all the time. If you are conservative, you get miniraised when you are beat. /images/graemlins/wink.gif
===================
#3. A miniraise after there has already been a round of betting. (for example, 4 handed after flop and it goes bet, fold, call, fold..turn comes and it goes, bet, miniraise).
--MR's here mean you are up against a big hand far more than someone just messing with you. Unless your hand is well disguised, you're probably behind or hugely dominated. They're not trying to get info from you, or minimove you off your hand. You've already shown twice that you have some kind of hand, thereby defining it somewhat for them. They are trying to get more money in the pot, because they think they have you beat.
**I think if we differentiate between the type of miniraise, #2 or #3, while at the table, our play will greatly improve and we won't swallow our gum everytime we are miniraised.**
=============
And finally, #4, striking fear in the hearts of 2+2 SSHE players everywhere......the minicheckraise. I'll leave the door open on that one. It usually comes down to an odds call, and a read on your opponent. You are almost always getting odds to call his bet, and unless you are very certain on your read of your opponent, you should often call the smaller minicheckraises (well, I am anyways, some like to head for the hills here), and seeing what develops on later streets, as you have position.
Well, that's all I can come up with at the moment. Feel free to hammer away at the holes in my thinking. Any thoughts on this topic are greatly appreciated.
--aj