Last Question From Me Regarding Religions

[David Sklansky]

I'm ready to wind down this subject and give my final verdict. But first I need to be sure I know the answer to the quesions below as it pertains to each of the various religions and their branches.

1. Does your religion allow for the possibility of intelligent, conscious, beings existing on other planets?

2. If yes, are these beings, if they exist, as important to God as humans?

3. If yes to the above two questions, would these beings be offered your own religion (suitably changed for the circumstances) regarding prayer, good works, afterlife, etc.

4. If yes to the above, and if your religion believes in Jesus, would it be necessary that Jesus appears to them or could it be someone else, (maybe who looks like them) or possibly just God.?

[runner4life7]

I am Lutheran

1. Theoretically yes because God can do whatever he wants but there is no reason to believe that he did create other life forms on other planets.

2. That would be hard to say because I am not God.

3. It would not make sense for them to have our religion because I think Jesus died for the people of Earth and it would not make sense for a planet far far away to have a savior here IMO.

4. It would depend on if they became sinful and needed a savior, or if God made a better race that worshiped him and never fell into sin.

[David Sklansky]

1. Theoretically yes because God can do whatever he wants but there is no reason to believe that he did create other life forms on other planets.

Then why create a quadrillion planets?

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Then why create a quadrillion planets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why create anything whatsoever? Trying to appeal to the motives of a possible superhuman entity doesn't seem like a fruitful way to go about arguing here.

[Darryl_P]

1. yes

2. yes

3. yes

4. not applicable because my religion doesn't require a past, present, or future messiah, but if one is necessary for others to practice it, then that's fine and it doesn't really matter who it is as long as he's a good messiah.

[David Sklansky]

What religion please.

[malorum]

The Lutheran tradition is somewhat fissiparous, doctrinal mileage may vary:

[ QUOTE ]
It would not make sense for them to have our religion because I think Jesus died for the people of Earth and it would not make sense for a planet far far away to have a savior here IMO.


[/ QUOTE ]

What about the trinity. Jesus is more than just the saviour, he is God. If we have multiple incarnations of God then the doctrine of the trinity would be compromised. This is contrary to the Lutheran confessions.

[ QUOTE ]
4. It would depend on if they became sinful and needed a savior, or if God made a better race that worshiped him and never fell into sin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scripture states "Through one man sin entered the world".
Generally Kosmos or world is taken to mean creation.
When adam sinned creation fell. the imperfect fallen nature of creation should be as obvious to the christian, as to the rationalist critic. I have no reason to suspect that the material universe suddenly becomes less fallen when we leave earth. I suspect things still die, and eat each other etc. An unfallen race would require an unfallen creation.

[malorum]

We are thinking of starting a prayer group for you at our Church David.

[DCWildcat]

Mr. Sklansky, I'm confused as to why having a large number of planets in existence is any sort of an indicator that God may or may not exist. To ask "why did he create all those other planets?" is a silly and irrelevant question to me.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Sklansky, I'm confused as to why having a large number of planets in existence is any sort of an indicator that God may or may not exist. To ask "why did he create all those other planets?" is a silly and irrelevant question to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not an indicator of God's existence. It's a question.

If you believe that God exists, and you believe that God created the universe, and you don't believe that there is life on other planets, then what is your belief for why God created so many other planets?

In other words, what is their purpose in an intelligently designed universe?

[DCWildcat]

The question carries with it an implication. Basically stated:

"God created Earth for humans, his favored species. Since humans don't live on other planets or have any particular use for them, what is the purpose of their existence?"

What is the purpose of aardvarks? Why do they exist?
Is it necessary for religious people to be able to answer all questions pertaining to stuff we just might not know the purpose of?

[runner4life7]

We has humans may exist for an unset amount of time so possibly at some point the distant planets will serve some purpose. Other than that I dont see any reason why he made them but I also dont know why he made anything else for that matter.

[BluffTHIS!]

My Catholic perspective:

#1: Quotes from a webpage: "Rev. George Coyne, director of the Vatican Astronomic Observatory, considers the possibility of extraterrestrials an "exciting prospect, which must be treated with caution.... The universe is so large that it would be folly to say that we are the exception." Rev. Christopher Corbally, S.J., another astronomer at the Vatican Observatory, believes that if we discover extraterrestrials, it will entail an expansion of our theology, for "while Christ is the First and the Last Word (the Alpha and the Omega) spoken to humanity, he is not necessarily the only word spoken to the whole universe." Theologians have weighed in as well. Thomas O’Meara, O.P., professor of theology at Notre Dame, argues, "The history of sin and salvation recorded in the two testaments of the Bible is not a history of the universe; it is a particular religious history on one planet." For O’Meara, "the central importance of Jesus for us does not necessarily imply anything about other races on other planets.... Believers must be prepared for a galactic horizon, even for further Incarnation.""

#2. All God's creation is important to Him, all though of course humans, being created in His own image, are the most important.

#3. The quotes given in my answer to #1 indicate that most likely the revelations/religion given to us here, are precisely for us here only on Earth. This is not to say that He won't take care of them in another, similar or dissimilar, way.

#4. N/A since answer to #3 was basically no.

I want to add, and I can cite some doctrinal works on this, that it is possible that early humans/pre-humans (let's take Neanderthals for instance who belonged to the same species as ourselves but a different sub-species) were sentient but had no immortal soul. Thus, they lived & died and that was it, like you believe to be most likely the case for all of us. This could also apply to sentient beings anywhere. In answer to your obvious question why God, if all his creations and beings are important to Him, would create some sentient beings in history who had spriritual souls and some who didn't, this is all speculation anyway, and even if true, I don't know why because God hasn't revealed all about His creation to us. If He does decide to let me know in a personal reveleation DS, you will be the second to be informed, though of course you would merely take the hypothesis that I was lying or had finally lost my last marble.

[drudman]

MAKE IT STOP

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Theoretically yes because God can do whatever he wants but there is no reason to believe that he did create other life forms on other planets.

Then why create a quadrillion planets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did he create a quadrillion quadrillion grains of sand?

Why did he create a quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion molecules?

Why did he create . . . infinity?

But really, don't you mean a quadrillion and one planets?

[Darryl_P]

[ QUOTE ]
What religion please.

[/ QUOTE ]

Darrylslam. It's based on Islam but with some modifications for modern, western life. There is no print version of the Darryls'ran, though, since the demand has not been there to make it economically feasible.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it necessary for religious people to be able to answer all questions pertaining to stuff we just might not know the purpose of?

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be nice if they at least tried, especially if they are going to make assertions about these types of things.

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Is it necessary for religious people to be able to answer all questions pertaining to stuff we just might not know the purpose of?



It would be nice if they at least tried, especially if they are going to make assertions about these types of things.


[/ QUOTE ]

He created because it is good.

Genesis 1:

31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
He created because it is good.

Genesis 1:

31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clearing that up.

::walks away very slowly::

[PairTheBoard]

Will the Sklansky Verdict be on Pay Per View?

I would guess that intelligent life around the Universe would develop their own religious expressions for their relationship to the Great Mystery of Existence. If and When we meet we will learn from each other. On those planets where average IQ's are over 1000, David's perspective on the issue will be considered comically naive.

PairTheBoard

[David Sklansky]

"On those planets where average IQ's are over 1000, David's perspective on the issue will be considered comically naive."

PairTheBoard

I'm confused. Why would they consider my ideas naive? And if they did, why wouldn't it just mean that they were wrong. You can't just assert things. You need to give a good reason.

[PairTheBoard]

DS --
"I'm confused"

Correct


PairTheBoard

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What religion please?

[/ QUOTE ]

Darrylslam. It's based on Islam. There is no print version of the Darryls'ran, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't trust a prophet who writes the name of his religion two different ways in the same post.

[Darryl_P]

One is the name of my religion, and the other is its bible...

Darrylslam is to Islam what Darryls'ran is to Qur'an

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm ready to wind down this subject and give my final verdict.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give your final verdict?? I didn't know it was going to come to this. No need for you to annouce this though, I think we all have a general idea of what you will say... nothing will be surprising.

Personally I love to come up with final verdicts on debatable topics... this way I will never have to debate them, become close-minded and safely assume that my verdict is right. It's just easier.

[The once and future king]

I practise Buddhist meditation. This is a practise with many benefits one of which is increased intellectual function as a consequence of massively improved concentration.

Luckily for me Buddhism dosnt even approach the idea of God, and one of the central concepts is that there is no monadic soul.

Green men would be more than welcome and wouldnt challenge any of the core principles of Buddhism and neither would any advance in scientific understanding.

It might once have bothered me that you lump buddhism in with all the other God worshiping religions but these days Im more than able to let such things ride, buddhism is much like poker in that most people have a mis conception of what it is and what it is about.

[bossJJ]

"Does your religion allow for the possibility of intelligent, conscious, beings existing on other planets?"

Yes, Judaism allows for this possibility.


"If yes, are these beings, if they exist, as important to God as humans?"

"If yes to the above two questions, would these beings be offered your own religion (suitably changed for the circumstances) regarding prayer, good works, afterlife, etc."


Regarding these two questions, I can't answer with something like "Judaism believes..." or "according to Judaism..." God hasn't told us one way or another. There is certainly no "official" Jewish belief about this, nor even a widely accepted opinion, not being discussed much at all.

As you know, accept for the general commandment to believe in God, Judaism tells us what to do, not what to believe. There are of course some general beliefs that are widely accepted within Judaism, like these, (http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm) but no official dogma or creed. Regarding many issues, we have wide latitude to essentially believe what we want. The important thing is whether one is doing the right thing. This is an area (intelligent life on other planets) that has no practical applicability for us, and an individual Jew can believe whatever he wants regarding this topic.

Having said all that, there has been a little discussion of this. The following opinions have been expressed (and there may be others): If these intelligent beings have free will, they would need Torah or something like it. The Torah does give the view that man is God's most important and cherished creation. Could Torah really exist on other planets? Yes or no (both expressed). If no, this means that those intelligent beings don't have free well and man is unique in this sense.

example 1 (http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=3012)

example 2 (http://www.rashiyomi.com/bm2_26a.htm)

[radar5]

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Nope, you gotta find this one on your own. It's not shoved at you.

[jon462]

1. yes, of course.
2. Yes, since all created beings are equally important to God.
3. If necessary. I say that because it is entirely possibly the other race of people never suffered the effects of original sin, a humanity has. If this were true, they would be immortal and very closely in tune with God, as Adam and Eve were before the fall.
However, assuming they sinned and fell, then I dont know, God chose to save man out of mercy.. although I would assume he would do that for the other race, how can I know?
4. ^^^ If they never fell, as I said in 3, then they likely see Jesus all the time. If they fell, and God chose to save them, it would indeed have to be Jesus (the Son-God), he would have to die for them also, I assume.

To be honest, these are just hypothetical guessing.. the only true answer to #3 and #4 a Christian can give is "I dont know."

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm ready to wind down this subject and give my final verdict.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed it. Seriously I would like to hear the summation.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What religion please?

[/ QUOTE ]

Darrylslam. It's based on Islam. There is no print version of the Darryls'ran, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't trust a prophet who writes the name of his religion two different ways in the same post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Islam studies the Koran.

[Sabrazack]

Im more interested in the answers to these questions:

1. What does god do all day?

2. Why did god create gold?

and finally, 3. What does god think of gay porn?

[Xelent]

[ QUOTE ]
Im more interested in the answers to these questions:

1. What does god do all day?

2. Why did god create gold?

and finally, 3. What does god think of gay porn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it obvious? He searches for gold while looking at gay porn?

[Peter666]

I am positive there is a de fide statement from a medieval Pope saying that there is no rational life outside of earth. I am looking for the exact quote.

Just Remember: IF THEY ARE NOT HUMAN, THEY ARE FOOD.

[RJT]

My religion is Christianity (Roman Catholic).

1. Yes

2. Assuming they aren’t similar to animals here (which, I don’t think have the same import to God as humans), then yes.

3. Yes, of course.

4. No, Jesus didn’t appear to me either. The other thing about Christianity that you seem to always disregard: Jesus, in our belief system, was not simply a person who did miracles and hung out and taught a new philosophy. To the believer, He is God incarnate. Perhaps, He would incarnate Himself there differently. But, it would not be necessary to incarnate Himself there at all (indeed, if He did, we have to regroup our theology -wouldn't change the basics, though.). Again, sending another John the Baptist-type isn’t the same thing. It wasn’t enough here. So, either they would have to rely on Jesus who came to earth or if God chose, He might (re)incarnate over yonder. Hey, maybe Jesus was the second or xth time God incarnated Himself. His reason for doing so would, of course, remain the same.

Now, getting into incarnating Himself more often gets into many complications relative to our religion. Namely Three Persons in One God thing, the Eucharist, etc. But, that doesn't mean that if we have new information, we couldn't try to figure out the theology relative to the new found data.

[bobman0330]

Perelandra by C.S. Lewis deals with these same questions.

He concludes:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No. In Perelandra, the sin of Adam is not repeated, so there is no need for a Savior.

As far as question 4 goes, the possibility that "someone else" stand in for Jesus is not going to fly with any mainstream Christian sect. Jesus in a different-appearing incarnation, perhaps, but the same person.