T8s in BB

[AliasMrJones]

8 handed 20/40 game. MP is loose and passive, Button is competent and aggressive.

Hero is in BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Folded to MP who limps, folded to Button who raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop is 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif2/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero raises...

Thoughts about this line? Continuing action later.

[random]

It depends on what they think of you.

[DcifrThs]

if you have done this with hands that contain small paiirs and/mid/top pair on the flop then its fine. a decent player will usually peel a card off to try and catch and then if unimproved fold to the turn bet.

a better playing button (you say competant and aggressive) will know what you "have" and will know he has more then his 6 outs. he will leverage this and raise your bet if any A/K/Q/J hits on the turn. you currently have a b'd flush draw, a gutshot and probably about 5 pair outs on average (he'll have a bigger pair here some ofth time). this amounds to about 1+4+5=10 outs give or take a fraction. so you do want to continue here but if a Q comes on the turn and you bet and he raises his AJo he will get you to make a mistake by folding your 9outs (assuming no heart) because you *should* be calling getting those odds but instead fold.

so it depends what "competent" means. also, since he's agressive, you'll get 3 bet on the flop too.

-Barron

[MrStretchie]

Indeed depends on what they think of you. It's convincing as a semi-bluff. (With emphasis on the bluff..) Of course, you're knocking out MP.. With gutshot plus backdoor flush draw, I'd be more inclined to peel one off and hopefully keep MP around getting 7:1.

Plus all you're really bluffing is a low pair or a better draw than you have.. So button could well call down and beat you with overs.

In the right situation against the right players it's a good bluff. If not, I'd say you've got odds to just call. If the raise is to clean up your ten outs or something, it's not worth it.

[LarsVegas]

I like it.

lars

[LarsVegas]

I can't see hero folding a double gutshot on a turn Q in a pot of the size it has then become. In fact, the only cards that could pose some problems for hero here are non heart kings and aces. I guess he must bet an offsuit king too, and call a raise with four outs to the nuts and likely to bets on the river in addition to the chance of winning with an eight or a ten and check-check, again in addition to image reasons. Calling on postflop streets is of some value in itself in limit holdem.

Anyway, I like it. In addition to his immediate outs to nuts or top pair, hero has about half the deck of other cards he likes, as well as the very real opportunity of winning this without a showdown. Even though villain "knows" what hero might be up to, what will be do with a hand like K-J offsuit?

lars

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
8 handed 20/40 game. MP is loose and passive, Button is competent and aggressive.

Hero is in BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Folded to MP who limps, folded to Button who raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop is 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/heart.gif2/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero raises...


[/ QUOTE ]
MP folds, Button calls.
(Pot 210) Turn is A/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets...

Still like this line?

[SaintAces]

You are spewing chips....

[benwood]

Listen to what LarsVegas is saying.On the turn , you have 4 cards to make the straight, 4 more to pick up an open ender, 4 more to pick up a double gut shot,.There are 7 hearts left to pick up a flush draw ( 3 have already been counted ) Also. 3 tens & 3 eights to make a pair. 25 improving cards out of 47. What a nice semi-bluff, Good job.

[Carmine]

Aren't you guys giving Hero's pairing outs to much weight here. Just because button is aggressive doesn't mean he only holds overcards here. Pair outs = 0 against AA-TT,88. Being you will have to lead the turn aren't you asking to be check-raised on the turn by an aggressive button, certainly if an overcard falls on the turn, and possibly even just a blank representing an overpair. I doubt you take this down on the flop with overs getting 9:1 on a 7:1 call unless button was trying to isolate a bad limper with some very mediocore holdings.

[ike]

I'll often just lead right out on this flop (with pairs also, not only this gutshot). Does that suck?