interesting TPGK flop decision

[VBM]

to me anyways.

I am in the BB with K9/images/graemlins/heart.gif
folded to sb (hasn't played a hand yet) who raises, i call.

flop (4SB):
2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif

<font color="red">sb bets</font>, <font color="red">I raise</font>, <font color="red">sb 3-bets</font>, I...?

[MrWookie47]

I don't think you can cap. I'd call here and reevaluate on the turn whether I call down or raise it up.

Edit: You could also consider 3betting preflop. You have position, and a decent hand. However, not everyone adjusts their raising standards when it's folded to them in the SB.

[GrunchCan]

You have the button. SB might be on a steal attempt, and is OOP for the whole hand. Your hand is quite strong heads up. I would have 3-bet PF.

Given the way you played it, I'll cap the flop. Lead or call the turn. Check or call the river. I will not fold.

Edit: corrected action

[bozlax]

How many hands do you have on Villan? Looks a lot like an overpair to me, I call the flop 3-bet and re-evaluate on the turn.

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll 3-bet the flop. If it gets capped, call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain 3-bet; do you mean i should call the 3-bet or cap it?

congrats btw, on your huge tourney win. talk about coming back in style!

[Shillx]

Cap, check behind on the turn and then call one on the river. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The problem with just calling now and then raising the turn is that you will only fold out hands that have little chance. You will do better by either flat calling down or maybe even waiting until the river to raise. The only hands that you really don't want for him to have (if you take this approach) are JT/QT/QJ. The problem as I see it with raising the turn is that something like 77 will go away and AA will either calldown or 3-bet. If you get 3-bet on the turn you will be forced to take a look at the river to see if you can find anything.

FWIW I don't think he is on something like AQ/AJ (we don't really care if he has AK) in this spot and that is why I'm leaning more toward playing it carefully. OOP you would definately call here and then lead out on a 4th street brick.

Brad

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can cap. I'd call here and reevaluate on the turn whether I call down or raise it up.


[/ QUOTE ]

so this seems to me to be that, i am behind; yes? how many outs do i get?

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll 3-bet the flop. If it gets capped, call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain 3-bet; do you mean i should call the 3-bet or cap it?

congrats btw, on your huge tourney win. talk about coming back in style!

[/ QUOTE ]

You quick quoter, you!

I fixed my post.

[GrunchCan]

Brad -

Are you taking this line to encourage a bluffer to continue to bluff?

If so, the opponent's flop 3-bet tells me 2 things: first, he's not inclined to let go of this pot, and second he's not inclined to stop bluffing.

For everyone else, one thing the opponent's 3-bet does *not* tell me is that he has some kind of huge hand. It's possible, but I'm not going to worry about that. Hero's hand is much to strong heads-up to consider letting go in to the muck.

[Sir Bruce]

Call the flop. Check/fold the turn unimproved.

It's way too likely for the villain to have AA/KK. AA is slightly more likely, and you have some outs there, but you're drawing very slim to a KK hand.

[Sir Bruce]

I don't see why the 3-bet doesn't indicate strength. The read was that the villian was very tight. Continuous raising out of position is exactly how I'd expect an overpair hand to play.

I think we're behind or drawing very slim here way too often, forcing us to give up at the turn unimproved.

[flyangler]

:grunching:
What level?
A tight player raises preflop, possibly a steal attempt. You defend with K9s and flop top pair. Tightie bets and re-raises... easy fold to me, in fact I would have probably just let him take my blind in the first place. K9 is a crap hand in early position against a preflop raise.

[ReptileHouse]

He's not in early position. He has position heads up.

I either call down from here or cap hoping to get a free turn and then call on the river.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
The read was that the villian was very tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw no read. I only see that villan hasn't played a hand yet. We don't know how many hands he's folded.

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The read was that the villian was very tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw no read. I only see that villan hasn't played a hand yet. We don't know how many hands he's folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is correct; to this point villain has been dealt a few hands; not enough to reasonably conclude if he's tight or not.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
to me anyways.

I am in the BB with K9/images/graemlins/heart.gif
folded to sb (hasn't played a hand yet) who raises, i call.

flop (4SB):
2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif

<font color="red">sb bets</font>, <font color="red">I raise</font>, <font color="red">sb 3-bets</font>, I...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have 3-bet preflop. K9s is a fine defending hand and you would like to encourage him to limp in from the small blind instead of raising.

As a result of the preflop call, the flop raise looks like a steal, making SB more inclined to 3-bet a weaker holding to fold you out. Of course, it could be a legit hand pushing you around here, but it's hard to tell. Had you 3-bet preflop, this would have become clearer.

I think you've got to cap him here. If he comes out leading on the turn, you know you're in trouble. Call the turn to snag a nine or a king. At the river... I don't know... I might just pay him off because he's an unknown and the donk factor is there. But folding is probably more prudent.

If he doesn't lead on the turn, check behind and get to the showdown for 1 more BB.

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have 3-bet preflop. K9s is a fine defending hand and you would like to encourage him to limp in from the small blind instead of raising.

[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of people are saying this and it's making me think... Normally I'd just call here with a hand like K9s. Would you still 3-bet if the steal was coming from the button (so that you're OOP the rest of the hand)?

[ QUOTE ]
If he doesn't lead on the turn, check behind and get to the showdown for 1 more BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I like betting on the turn if it's a card &lt; 9, then checking behind on the river. Why give a free card to someone with overcards to your top pair?

[Shillx]

I think I like betting on the turn if it's a card &lt; 9, then checking behind on the river.

I think I like betting on the turn if it isn't an ace, then betting again on the river.

Brad

[ReptileHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
this is correct; to this point villain has been dealt a few hands; not enough to reasonably conclude if he's tight or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, OK. I misunderstood. That changes things a bit.

I like being more aggressive in that case. If he's playing an overpair or flopped a set or something, well.. that's going to suck, but we've got a strong hand and position here against an unknown on a possible steal.

Cap flop. Bet if checked to on the turn and river. If bet to on the turn after capping the flop, that's a much trickier thing. I think I'd still just call down from there.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would have 3-bet preflop. K9s is a fine defending hand and you would like to encourage him to limp in from the small blind instead of raising.

[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of people are saying this and it's making me think... Normally I'd just call here with a hand like K9s. Would you still 3-bet if the steal was coming from the button (so that you're OOP the rest of the hand)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Position is a huge advantage. If button raised, then I'm more inclined to just call against an unknown. If villain is a known stealer, I'm 3-betting anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he doesn't lead on the turn, check behind and get to the showdown for 1 more BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I like betting on the turn if it's a card &lt; 9, then checking behind on the river. Why give a free card to someone with overcards to your top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to get check-raised by AA-TT, which are all reasonable flop 3-betting hands. If he's overplaying a hand, he's probably overplaying AK, where we've got him pinned down to three outs anyway. I'm inclined to believe that he has the goods, but I don't want to fold. Therefore, I'm aiming to get a cheap showdown.

[Sir Bruce]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw no read. I only see that villan hasn't played a hand yet. We don't know how many hands he's folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh . . . I see that now. With no read on villian's hand then (except the potential steal), capping is probably right. TPGK is great heads-up in position, and a bet/raise is probably in order on the turn with any card besides an A. If the villian still shows strength, call down to the river.

[VBM]

i capped.

I don't think a non-maniacal 2/4 villain typically semi-bluff 3-bets an AQ-type hand and some chance of an OESD like JTs or something, so that leaves pretty much overpairs, and there's a good chance I'm behind.

if i call here, a turn bet from sb is nearly certain and if a heart falls, i'm likely to peel the turn for a total of 1.5SB.

if i cap here 1BB, i gave myself a reasonable chance to slow him down and get a free look at the turn/river. if i cap and he bets into me again, i reevaluate. roughly;

if i turn a heart, i need to see a river.
if i turn a 9, i raise.
if i turn a K, i'm not sure, but i likely call down.
if i turn &amp; river nothing, i can fold a river bet w/o regret.

luckbox that i am, i turned a K, bet the rest of the way &amp; and sb paid off his TT.

i feel like, taking a holistic look at the hand, a LP cap here is actually *cheaper* in many cases, helps define villain better &amp; gives hero some better showdown options.

thx for the replies!